Underdogs

Hello Iron Jack - I feel like I've been in a hologram intimately sharing this story with your characters - your narrative voice is compelling and the subtle observations rich in furnishing the setting. I was totally absorbed in the story and loved your opening chapter - right down to the parting words that swept me to Casablanca and the unforgettable look in Ingrid's eyes. I'm honoured to have lodged the volume on my revolving shelf and wish you every success.

Hi Jack,
Just finished reading the first chapter, and it immediately fills the story with tension and suspense.
Great Writing!!
Regards,
Luke

Gripping stuff; it reads like a film, which is no bad thing for a thriller. The bit where the girl in the red dress appears had my heart beating faster. And the way you don’t describe the feelings of the two men in the dreadful situation, because you don’t need to…

I’m putting this on my shelf because of its sheer excitement.

[Maitre d’, as it’s short for Maitre d’hotel. There’s the odd thing you could cut; I noticed a ‘clearly’, and I think just ‘Shit!’ would do without the following phrase.]

Iron Jack--
First off, thanks for the kind comments about High Wire. As for your question, I must admit that I've never been on fire nor have I ever run a mile and a half at one go, so I can't speak for either experience. Perhaps Truly having been a cross-country runner might have accounted for it, but I'll consider it further.

Now, for Underdogs. Man, what a way to start out! Action and suspense from the very beginning. Excellent work putting us in the midst of suspense of the bistro scene, as well as the back of that van. I did have a question near the middle of the chapter, about the use of double-spacing between paragraphs--I wondered why mid-chapter breaks would be necessary there. Also, once you spell Billie as 'Billy'.

But those are trifles. I am certainly compelled to read further.

--Jason

Hi jacK. Powerful stuff!! I loved this and its not a genre I normally look into. I loved the movie patriot games and this reminded me slightly of that! My son, nearly 16 would like this. hes just getting into adult reads. Well written,great plot and exciting. Well done. onto my shelf!

Hi Jack, Very exciting. You’ve put the details about the empty holster and the van in the right place, not telling the reader exactly who Nick and Bruce are. Quite a scene in the restaurant where the two were discovered. The action here is done with keenness; it almost moves in slow motion, it’s written so well. I haven’t come across very much on the IRA here; this is tense and feels very credible. Easily shelved – Katherine (The Swan Bonnet)

Jack: both pitches work but you may wanna use only one question on the long pitch. I do apologize for the lack of a proper comment but I am leaving for the weekend and it's late here. Let me know if you want a proper comment upon my return and I will read more as soon as I have a chance. For now, enjoy the BACKING. I can use your comment on my book when you get the chance. Cheers!

JC
The Obergemau Key

I love your focus on dialogue to move the story along. It keeps the pace brisk and does not distract the reader with verbose description. When you do employ description, such as when Nick is on the floor looking something sharp to "catch the edge of the plastic tape on" it is crisp and to the point. I cannot find anything to criticize about writing skills. They are perfect for a crime thriller. Why the hell don't the publishers see that? I'll be back to read more when I get some time. Backed for now.

UNDERDOGS
This is an exciting story. I like the way it begins slowly (men ordering dinner), then bursts into run and chase action. If Jim is going to be the main character, tho, I was surprised he didn’t appear until well into the story. Either way, because the number of books written about the IRA has slowed to a trickle these days I think you’ll find an audience among people still very interested in whether the organization is still terrorist or mainstream political. Will want to read a new slant on this. I’m adding it to my shelf. If you have a moment, would you look at mine (Grain of Salt)? I’m in 3th place but only holding on by my teeth. Burgio

Hello "jack", reads like I'm watching a film which is always a good sign. I like the quick paced dialogue but no need to be so specific with the specification of the bullets ... I believe you you know what they are !

Well done on a great first chapter !

I love ex-spies who return to work. Very LeCarre-ish. I also enjoyed reading about Wolf. Backed.

Hi, Jack. Just read ch 1 - 5. Intriguing story! Ch 1 is a killer intro. The action slows down after that. Susan's husband and parents seem subdued and low key in view of the kidnappings. Question: How did Jim know the call would be made to Susan's parents, and not him? It's as if he knew what they were after. Well, maybe that's part of the story. On my WL.
cfarer

This looks gripping. I put it on my WL.

The cover dosen't tell the reader much. It looks too peaceful, although the title does give more away. Maybe this contrast is what you intended? Joanna

Jack, I believe I promised to read some of your book some time ago. My apologies for being so tardy. My first reaction is that Underdogs is a tight thriller. You have the tension and you have the essential ingredient of a thriller, namely a protagonist who has to solve a problem or die trying. This is very much a plot-led story which is necessary for a fast pace. My feeling is that, overall, you are on the right lines but you tend to overegg it from time to time. For one thing, as I think some others have already mentioned, you sometimes overuse adjectives and adverbs; the writing would be tighter without them because they can get in the way of the story. I would also cut the dot dot dots as these imply that you don’t know what to write at these points which I’m sure is not the case. Some of the dialogue is superfluous, such as in discussion over whether they should have steak in Chapter 1 and in the same chapter ‘The driver glared at him. “Move again and I’ll shoot you.”’ This story has potential but I think you need to tighten it.

Lexi's right, it does read like a film. Not my usual sort of fare, but engaging and seems well-paced. If I can make a suggestion about your dialogue, you might want to pare down some of the "so-and-so agreed", "so-and-so interrupted" usage (I'm sure these things have a proper term, but I'm buggered if I can think what it is). Once a conversation is established, you probably need less of them than you think you do. Others have pretty much hoovered up the other niggles so I won't repeat them.

Definitely a bloke's book!

Hello there Jack,
OK, so it’s a pseudonym … still simpler to address my comments to a name.
This was interesting, although as I write I’ve only read the first chapter, but am planning on reading more.
Very minor nitpick is that you don’t need the comma here: ‘Donnie Ellis, rose as they …’ I tend to point these out as I know I don’t see such errors in my writing and appreciate being told of any boo-boos I’ve made.
I don’t think you need a capital M for Maitre’ d … use maitre d’.
You need a few commas or full stops at the end of direct speech, before the quote marks … yes, nit picking, but it makes it so much easier to read.
I think it’s better to use OK or okay instead of o.k.
Try reading your writing, including dialogue, out loud and when you pause, that’s probably where you need a comma. Most of my comments should usually be taken as being preceded by ‘In my opinion … ‘ And ignore them if you wish.
Very simple straightforward first chapter but quite effective. Well done. I could see this happening as I read it. Didn’t feel a lot of empathy for the characters, but I imagine in coming chapters we will be able to see into their minds and motivations a lot more. I presume Nick becomes Jim in the following chapters. Sarah was a dim witted twit.
Aah … into chapter 2 and I see you are doing what I have also been accused of on more than one occasion .. giving out big chunks of information – using narrative rather than action to tell rather than to show. But I don’t mind that, it’s OK. One thing you might want to check is your use of proper names – ‘Susan’ appears 33 times in this chapter and ‘Jim’ 69 times! (Um, no, I didn’t count them … that’s what a computer is for!)
Please … ‘Your father …’, not ‘You’re father … ‘
Oh, I did smile at the fact that Susan and Millie received Irish stew to eat! How very suitable under the circumstances! Heh! And good to see Susan is practical, thoughtful and resourceful – not a silly meeping woman.
Oh, VERY long paragraph when Jim gets into room 22 – you might like to look at breaking it up into several smaller ones.
Nice clear concise writing, otherwise. I really do look forward to reading more of this.
Regards and good luck.

hello there,
Now, this looks interesting. I've always been a sf fan, but visiting this site has made me appreciate nice (ie nasty) twisty devious thrillers.
Looking forward to reading the first ive chapters and then I'll be back.
All the best,

What an exciting opening chapter. Don't have time to read further at the moment but, wanted to let you know I enjoyed what I'd got through. I got a little confused when they were in the car but I think I was reading too fast during that scene for it all to register. I liked the bit when Coldfield's old friend turns up, thought it was a nice touch.

I look forward to reading more.

Hi Jack,
It's great. Real characters, natural dialogue (lot's of short utterances keep the pace high), action and intrigue in chapter one. Chap two drops the pace a bit with the background stuff, but after ch 1 maybe we need a breather!
Really enjoyed it, on the shelf. Sorry it took so long to get to read,
All the best,
Simon

Just started the book. Chap 1 (prologue) is excellent, and as you said its fairly self-contained. Then Chap 2 (proper Chap 1) starts with a lot of back story and exposition before anything really happens. This seems similar to the same problem I had on my own book and had to solve eventually. You can't allow the reader to come down off the precipice of the intro so quickly. You need to keep the intensity up, or not raise it so high in the first place.

But having said that, you're a very talented writer and the book has an excellent premise. It should do very well, and certainly will have a huge commercial appeal. I'll buy it when its in print, after all the edits and alterations...

Dave

Jack,

I have read your opening three chapters and found them interesting with a good storyline developing. Lots of mystery which would make for a page turner thriller.

There were a few things which jarred a little and my hopefully helpful comments are as follows:

The opening situation of an undercover operation in a busy restuarant seems a bit strange, especially as the character starts pulling out bullets. A pub with a backroom would perhaps have served the same purpose. The chance meeting could always happen in the bar on the way out.
I would have expected that support team to consist of more than three blokes in a white van across the street. An army patrol nearby and possibly a helicopter on standby would be more my expectation. The IRA would have burned out the abandoned car. Perhaps the reasons for the low key nature will become evident in later chapters.

There is a lot of description in Chapter two which tends to clutter the thread of the story. There is a lot of passages which serve no obvious purpose eg 40mph speed limits and ponies. You describe several houses in detail and each new character gets a pen picture. If you could trim some of this then the pace would quicken. I found it prevented me from being dragged in to the characters.
You mention mobile phones yet Jim does not once ring his wife. That could have given an opportunity for an exchange, but maybe she doesn't have a phone.

I found it difficult to place the action in time and therefore context unless I had read the pitch. Drop in a casual date in conversation somewhere, it would help. Again maybe this will all become clearer later.

Overall, I think there is potential in your story. You have created a few interesting characters but you could give them some space and let them express themselves. The premise in very interesting and makes for a good thriller scenario.

As I said I hope to be of help
All the best
Stephen

Well, Iron Jack, let us see what develops in this thriller. I am American, but I do have friends in Ireland and the UK so the pitch made me say, “Hmmmm?”

Right off I liked the description in the first paragraph. BUT, I would have to say watch the use of adjectives. I saw 3 or four in as many sentences and as someone on here told me, “be confident in your verbs! You don’t need too many filler adverbs to clutter up your thoughts.” (or something like that)… The government as an entity would be singular, I believe, so therefore it would be “the government WAS picking up the bill”… (If you hadn’t noticed, I take notes as I read)…
I get people saying things about my use of the ellipsis, so you may want to check it your extra long version is acceptable. Just an fyi… typo “light there WAS came from old concrete” might lose the WAS….. then there is a bit where AFTER Nick was wrapped you say billie put the gun away yet in the van “he still held the gun casually in his left hand” (hmmm) Interesting how the main character isn’t introduced until chapter 2…. (people yelled at me for that) cool way to keep me reading! Susan kicking and biting… hehe… I got tired of sight ing technical errors, I think you got my point. I think this is a good read. Entertaining, descriptive, well thought out. I liked it a lot!
Gina

hey jack, working on my reading and review of this now,
talk soon,
gina

Thanks a lot Jack,
can't believe I missed that double 'only' in the second line! So has everyone else who's read it, so well done for seeing it! All the other comments will be very useful too, when I find time to do a proper edit, and thanks also for the shelf - much appreciated.
Underdogs is now on my watchlist and I hope to be as helpful with comments as you have.
All the best,
Simon

Jack, thanks so much, I appreciate your support and will take a look at those points you raised. Underdogs is on my list, I'm not far from the New Forest so will enjoy the familiar location, although it's the story that's of real interest. Please give me a little time to come back to you. Thank you again.

Hey , thanks for looking into Reality. (hehe) totally get the comment. You are right, thank you. will have to fix that. I am trying hard to clean up those bits of TEL. Thanks. Lok forward to further comments. Underdogs has been on my list. But I have a long list. I thi nk it was 48 Nov 1st and I have read about 21. So you are probably in the next 6. I would love to read it this week,, I haev to see. I have surgery and the pain meds make it hard to consontrate.
Talk soon,
Gina

Jack, thanks for your very kind comments on Archer. Its still a work in progress, so I do appreciate the suggestions and input. You are on my watchlist for a read very soon.

At times I find a read on here that is great, but I see ways to improve it, and, because I do see huge potential in it I critique in one window, while reading in another. Yours is one such book.

You already have my attention right a the beginning. I wasn't far into the book when I opened up my second window.
Notes.
Lose the 'bead' of sweat cliche.
I like the connection with the van by his words being connected via the speaker. This shows us the van, rather than tells us.
Don't tell us the restaurant is crowded, with twenty or more tables. Show us. Show the guys squeezing their way by, maybe knocking into someone. Maybe by waving a greeting while trying to reach the table.
I get the part where Donnie Ellis is at the table, but you lose me with the 'Coldfield' and New Zealand references. I'm re-reading, but I'm confused. I read on. I think I'd lose the references about the girl, it gets confusing, and stops the pace. Either that, or expand on it more.
Please lose any text in brackets, or lose the brackets. It slows the reader.
I like the tension.
A couple of extra 'that's' which you can take out just after this part.
More tension, is Sarah going to blow their cover? Great.
I didn't realise that Ellis was in on it until after Sarah left. Was this intentional or was the reader supposed to catch it earlier with the conversation about New Zealand and the girl? The earlier conversation made me think there was a deal going on with Ellis, but that he didn't know Nick & Co. were undercover. I'm thinking after reading the part after Sarah leaves that the reader was supposed to catch it earlier. If so, then expand the 'New Zealand' paragraph to make it clearer.
I like the knife through the jacket description. The action of the team trying to get in, while the others are being taken out of the back is well done. I'd think though that the team would anticipate that they'd go through the back and have people coming that way also.

Put line breaks to show the action moves from Nick in the car, to back inside the restuarant the way you did when you broke to the scene with the team rushing in. You may already have this and it may be an 'authonomy' formatting issue though.
Rather than 'tell' us about the graffiti, you could show us by having Nick read it. Could be interesting and an addition to the story.
Repetition on 'nodding furiously'.
Great action in the van, I'm wondering how they're going to get out of this mess, but can see the germ of a plan growing. Good execution of the plan, but I did wonder how Nick got on top of the seats in order to 'jump' off them. I re-read but didn't catch it as I saw him crash Billy into the bars.

Good ending, but the 'hairs standing on end' is a cliche. With such great writing I'm sure you can write that better.

It might seem as though I've been a tad critical, but that's because I really do like this story. The plot and pace are spot on, and I'm putting you on my shelf for a vote.

Lorrii

Hi Jack, Underdogs has a very exciting well written beginning, I look forward to reading more.

I thought I'd mention you have a POV issue between your main character Nick and the back up van. There were also a few minor issues like the unnecessary use of that and had, Example: but anyone else that had noticed was … IMO but anyone who noticed was …sounds better.

Also with regard to the restaurant door, where you said: "with jagged triangles of glass embedded around the edges." Where I come from that door would have to have been tempered, leaving tiny innocuous pieces of glass, similar to a car windshield. You may want to check on that.

Here are three more things you might look at:

"The man has no nerves at all." To me this sounds the opposite of what I think you mean.

"The Government were picking…" Seems like this should be Government was picking… the gov't being a single entity here.

"Bent over to study their copy." A tad awkward. Something like tensions eased as each man examined his menu at his pleasure. Also, I believe most people hold their menu up to read it. I know I do.

Hope these comment help.

Thanks Jack, very kind. The book hasn't been edited yet so there are grams and typos. Fireball... well spotted. Yes it's intentional. Chapter 8 (Authonomy chapter 9) answers. I must say no more... Still have you on my watchlist btw.

Hello Jack,
I've come back and read the rest of "Underdogs" - thoroughly enjoyed it!!! In fact, I was disappointed when it ran out :-(
It's so readable and the tension is really well worked. It's shaping up to be the kind of book I'd curl up on the sofa with - looking forward to reading more.
I think it's about time it went on my bookshelf.
K

Hi Jack,

Glad you're enjoying Widowmaker. Thanks for the shelf space.

Yeah, Nadine's weapon will be explained, although there are a few clues throughout the book. Part of the solution to the mystery.

"Underdogs" is now on my watchlist. I really dig your avatar. Magnificent dog. Is it yours?

EDIT: Ha! My mistake. It's a WOLF! Gettin punchy from too much reading.

Later, NS

Hi jacK. Powerful stuff!! I loved this and its not a genre I normally look into. I loved the movie patriot games and this reminded me slightly of that! My son, nearly 16 would like this. hes just getting into adult reads. Well written,great plot and exciting. Well done. onto my shelf!

Thanks Jack! I know there is a lot to work on. I am currently going a good edit but going to take a while.you are on my list.thanks for taking some time out!

hi jack. this looks something that my 15 year old son would love. He reads most of andy mcnab so im going to read. Need a break from fantasy reads sometimes!! i love your synopsis by the way...will try over the weekend!

Hi Jack, Thanks for your comments on Circle of Seven Things, and for picking up those couple of typo's - I can't see for looking these days, and especially thanks for shelving it.

I've now read the last 2 chapters of Underdogs and it's a good as the rest. The only part that struck me as not correct was around the MoatHouse - and I say this from having worked in the hotel industry for many years.

Receptionists are not allowed to give out room numbers, certainly not over the phone - your better bet would have been to have him arrive and ask her in person for the room number, maybe some pretence about O'Hara being an old friend and he wanted to slip a card under his door or something. The other thing is that most Hotels now have electronic key cards rather than 'keys'. Obviously getting hold of a key card for a room is slightly more difficult however each maid would carry a master card for their floor which quite often gets left on the cleaning cart - or for someone of Jims background I wouldn't think it would take much for him to bump into a maid and steal the key from her. I hope I don't come across as a criminal mastermind.

This is a book that's right up my street and I think it deserves to be a bit higher so I've going to give you a turn on one of my revolving spaces.

Dear Jack, many thanks. You're very kind. R

Hi, Jack. This is very well written, and I love the storyline, so I'm ahappy to shelve you over the weekend. My concern, a minor one, is that I felt there is a lot of detail that sometimes gets in the way of teh flow - introducing characters by first name and second name being an example. Maybe a little prune would make this even slicker still.

Cheers

Dan

Well, well, well, this is a v.well written chapter by someone who can obviously write! The adjective which keeps popping into my head is 'strong'. Strong pitch, strong opening para, strong writing, strong chapter! Looks professional, flows fast, well-paced.
The dog can write. :-)
Only slight query about ch 1, was if you could have done more characterisation earlier on. To get the reader under their skin more.
Will give you a spin on my shelf.
Hannah

Hello!!!
Thanks for the comments and am pleased you feel inspired!!!
Can't wait to read yours. :-)
Hannah

Thanks, Jack, for your comments on Common Places, and you were right to be confused. For some reason authonomy had deleted Chapter 1. I have now put it back although whether you wish to return and try again is of course another matter.

Iron Jack--
First off, thanks for the kind comments about High Wire. As for your question, I must admit that I've never been on fire nor have I ever run a mile and a half at one go, so I can't speak for either experience. Perhaps Truly having been a cross-country runner might have accounted for it, but I'll consider it further.

Now, for Underdogs. Man, what a way to start out! Action and suspense from the very beginning. Excellent work putting us in the midst of suspense of the bistro scene, as well as the back of that van. I did have a question near the middle of the chapter, about the use of double-spacing between paragraphs--I wondered why mid-chapter breaks would be necessary there. Also, once you spell Billie as 'Billy'.

But those are trifles. I am certainly compelled to read further.

--Jason

Jack,

There's nothing to be said about this. It's a real page turner. I've not come across anything I think needs changing except the odd comma here and there. It's a book I'd read in a couple of hours and tell people about.

Bookshelf.

R

Jack, thanks for reading Tibbles and Timmo (eh?), and for the shelving.

Jack,

have added you to my watchlist.

R

Very good. Read the first chapter and I could have been reading any commercially-published thriller from WHSmiths. Certainly on a par with everything else out there. A few niggles - Billie to me is a girl, not a boy! And I didn't understand why the whole first chapter was about characters who aren't in the pitch. If Bruce and Nick or at least one of them is a principal character, then why is the pitch about someone called Jim? Maybe Nick becomes Jim with a new identity? If so, I feel you need a way to explain this very early on, just to keep the reader's expectations satisfied.

But I'd buy this in a shop, definitely. And would read more now if it wasn't on screen.

Thank you for putting me on your shelf Jack, and I'm interested on your comments regarding the ship. I have to admit 'yeards' were used in some of the eye-witness accounts, and I kind of nicked them! Do you think it's an old word for yards? And I'm sure I've read it called a steamship - but from the pictures it did have sails too. I'll dig out my research and go through it again. I'll have a look at the other lines you picked up on too. I really appreciate you taking the time to look at this so thoroughly. Many thanks.

Dear Jack, I've read the first chapter of Underdogs and have put it on my shelf. Your writing flows nicely. My opinion is that you would improve the atmosphere if you tightened the writing. I think, you would make the tale more tense, more dramatic. Take out adjectives and adverbs. Shorten sentences. Don't explain too much. You might amuse yourself (I do it all the time) by making a copy of one of your chapters and seeing how much you can cut it back and still relate the same story. My opinion only. I was once told to remove every third word of an early novel, but I did it and I sold the novel. Zambezi is very tight. Perhaps too tight, although I don't think so. I have written the damn thing four times now. Anyway, have a ball with your writing. regards, Pierre.

Gripping stuff; it reads like a film, which is no bad thing for a thriller. The bit where the girl in the red dress appears had my heart beating faster. And the way you don’t describe the feelings of the two men in the dreadful situation, because you don’t need to…

I’m putting this on my shelf because of its sheer excitement.

[Maitre d’, as it’s short for Maitre d’hotel. There’s the odd thing you could cut; I noticed a ‘clearly’, and I think just ‘Shit!’ would do without the following phrase.]

Jack Fist is certainly a fine name. I had thought it a play onJack Frost before coming here.
I enjoyed this first chapter. It does, I think, what it sets aout to do ina very competent, not to say thrilling, way. You can see by my bumbling attempts to say something positive that this is not the kind of book I am used to reading. Having said that, I enjoyed this chapter a lot and will read som more later in the week when I have a little more time.

Hello Iron Jack - I feel like I've been in a hologram intimately sharing this story with your characters - your narrative voice is compelling and the subtle observations rich in furnishing the setting. I was totally absorbed in the story and loved your opening chapter - right down to the parting words that swept me to Casablanca and the unforgettable look in Ingrid's eyes. I'm honoured to have lodged the volume on my revolving shelf and wish you every success.

Jack. Have you on my watchlist too. Look forward to your comments on The Charter too.

Your declaration of possible love worked for me, you're watchlisted and I shall be back when I've waded through the list.

Ditto, I've watchlisted you, too and will come back when time permits.
Ciao

Hi. thanks. Am changing title and pitch but just waiting till i hear from PJ....