Canterbury Warriors

It's a sad truth that when tackling a subject like this it is nearly always impossible to write it how it was/is without the casual observer thinking the realms of imagination had been stretched beyond the point of fantasy in order to achieve dramatic effect. Coming from Bradford and knowing all about the infamy of the Canterbury estate, I can say that Jue Shaw's portrayal is as close to the bone as you can get, and she captures all the despair, depravity, twisted morality and systemic violence perfectly, as well as the blind loyalty and dark humour that runs like a rich vein through all the shit.
Without resorting to cliches, the author tells it like it is, and the dialogue leaps off the page shockingly real, in a style I probably first noticed in John King's Headhunters.
I know this is all set in the seventies yet I suspect little has changed, as I regularly travel along Southfield Lane and observe amongst the great unwashed a June or a Jock queing outside the post office for the fortnightly giro.
Looking forward to reading more.
No nits apart from odd slip of the keyboard. & Chapt. 8 is duplicated for Chapt. 9
Derryl.

A raw and accurate portrayal of life on this particular estate on the outskirts of Bradford in the 1970s and early 80s. It captures the sense of them and us: 'them' being those in positions of authority outside the estate.

But it also captures the different layers and social levels within the area. To outsiders, the estate would appear a homogenous mass of rough life, to be avoided unless absolutely necessary to go there. But to the insider, there are subtle differences in status, according to what 'respect' you command. The author has really tuned into this, and this is demonstrated particularly well when Vinnie is told he will be sent to an 'Approved School'. On the surface he appears suitably upset when faced with the news by his social worker ( this is a great description of the social worker - and how she unsuccessfully tries to ingratiate herself into the community), but secretly Vinnie is quite pleased, as this will advance his credibility with the other local yobs.

The character of Vinnie is very well done. He can show respect and loyalty to his mother and kindness to his sister's children, but is also capable of casual cruelty, as shown in the scene with the cat, and he also indifferently steals from his local community. But we don't have to like or empathise with him; this is Vinnie; this is how he is, and is vivid and accurate portrayal of a teenager going in a particular anti-social direction.

There are some great lines, e.g. 'face like a smacked arse', and the author highlights brilliantly the fierce familiy loyalties, as well as incendiary tensions that are always smouldering - particularly between spouses or partners.

The author is not afraid to tackle difficult issues of child abuse, and this is introduced, sensitively I thought, toward the end of ch. 3. We are spared the details, but we recognise what has happened. Good writing.

The writing also effectively picks out neat and telling details about life-style, e.g. the guitar-clock on the living-room wall, and I would liked to have read more detail about June & Jock's house in ch. 1, to have given me more of a sense of how they lived, as well as how they related and spoke to each other.

I also found the incident with the open grave a bit OTT, as I am not sure even Bradford Council would be that incompetent and insensitive - but the author may be recalling something that actually happened, so I am open to be told I am wrong! [Julie tells me this DID happen - Bradford Council ARE a bunch of idiots].

The common enemy of the police are referred to as 'bissies' and 'pigs' in the novel. I remember that 'pigs' was in common parlance then, but don't remember 'bissies' in West Yorkshire, although this was a common expression in Liverpool & the North West.

June's violent reaction to Vinni when told of his burglary escapades surprised me, given that she half-knew anyway, and I wondered if this was a strategy to gain sympathy from the social worker? If so, maybe that could be emphasised in the story.

I didn't connect with the letters in ch. 4. They were too 'oral', as if Vinnie was talking into a tape-recorder, rather than writing his thoughts down. Whereas casual use of 'fuck' & 'fucking' are part of everyday speech in the area, in my experience they are rarely found in letters, particularly between son and mother. I could hear him saying these things, but not writing them. Would his spelling be that good, too? The story suggested in ch. 1 that Vinnie regularly bunked off school. Maybe the Approved School would allow tapes to be made to be sent home, particularly if someone had literacy issues.

Overall, I was very impressed by the power of this writing, and can certainly vouch for its authenticity. I know the estate in question & worked on it for a while as an adult education tutor. It is a honest look at life in a way that many of us would prefer to ignore. I was advised once that a new author should write about things they know about; have lived through etc. The author has adopted this approach - and the result is a work of considerable energy and commitment. Recommended.

Tough, gritty, determined writing saying it the way it is. Great flow and good pace. Well done kid! This was one of the most realistic stories I have read on this site. Dysfunctionalism to its limit. Great characters, no respect, no education, no parental guidance just sheer anarchy - loved it. And here's me thinking Thatcher was to blame. I liked the character Jock, think he jumped right off the page, typical lazy-bastard-worthless-male piece of shit (excuse the French) I don't think I've read a story where very little action is seen yet it's as busy as an ant's nest. There's loads going on, never a dull moment, and delivered with clear, vivid description.

I did notice some had commented on June warming her arse by the fire. I think it might sound better as 'She was welcoming her rear to the embers.' Don't know, somehow it sounded right.

Overall a very entertaining read. Have a look at some typos (sue) lower case s
I'd get rid of the words 'extricate' and 'incarceration' they don't belong on the estate.

Laugh. I've still got a picture of a cooked cat on the washing line. Brilliant.

{Canterbury Warriors} – Julie Shaw
Chapter 3:

What I love about story writing is its raw quality; the way you depict ordinary life, and create such connection to the characters. I particularly love the little Sue, and seeing things from her youthful perspective.

Here are my editorial notes I hope will be useful!
1) I’d just say ‘she sat on the hearth’ → because the definition of hearth is edge of a fireplace, so you don’t need the extra words I don’t think
2) extra comma; ‘… pulled her nighty over her knees, and sobbed.’ → separates the ‘sobbing’ action
3) I’d say ‘Though she loved her dad, he shouldn’t talk about her brother like that.’
4) comma; ‘Sue wailed, ‘But what…’
5) Instead of something like ‘All of a sudden he felt shit scared’ I’d describe how ‘fear choked him up’.. just a thought though to ‘show’ more, maybe?
6) I’d have new line/para at ‘Sighing, she took a deep breath’ → we go from ‘thought action’ to her physical action of stepping in…
7) I’d say,... ‘she shivered, realizing that she could see her breath’ → so there are not two ‘ed’ verbs one after the other
Hope these are helpful! I will be coming back for more!!
:)
Cara

Impressive, visceral realism. The conversations throughout add depth to an already vivid story, dragging the reader into the oppressive reality of living within a community where mindless violent reenactment is a way of life. The Catherine wheel cat was a horrific representation of sickening sadism, the description of mucky Melvin made me feeling white faced and sickened in empathy with Sue!

Keep it coming Jue it's going to be great........

Julie this is the best read I have started on Authonomy. It is right up my street, and I can relate to the tough council housing estate were crime is sometimes a way of life. I chuckled inside at Vinnie's mother think that it couldn't possibly be my boy - the buter wouldn't melt in his mouth attitude and then the realisation that he was in fact a "bad lad"

Julie you have a real gift of putting the reader right inside Vinnie's kitchen. I LOVE IT. It is the best thing I have read on authonomy.

This should be published

Reminds me of a Martina Cole read

BRILLIANT 6 STARS

Dean

LADIES NIGHT
ROUGH JUSTICE

BRILLIANT JUST BRILLIANT - The best start to book I have read on authonomy. You are a total natural writer. I grew up of a tough estate in Luton just like the one your describing and can relate to this story on so mny levels (probably too man to be honest) Julie I think that you just may be one of the best writers on authonomy. Your style reminds me of Martina Cole's style.

I am in awe of your talent

Love it

6 stars

Dean

Rough Justice
Ladies Night

BRILLIANT JUST BRILLIANT - The best start to book I have read on authonomy. You are a total natural writer. I grew up of a tough estate in Luton just like the one your describing and can relate to this story on so mny levels (probably too man to be honest) Julie I think that you just may be one of the best writers on authonomy. Your style reminds me of Martina Cole's style.

I am in awe of your talent

Love it

6 stars

Dean

Rough Justice
Ladies Night

BRILLIANT JUST BRILLIANT - The best start to book I have read on authonomy. You are a total natural writer. I grew up of a tough estate in Luton just like the one your describing and can relate to this story on so mny levels (probably too man to be honest) Julie I think that you just may be one of the best writers on authonomy. Your style reminds me of Martina Cole's style.

I am in awe of your talent

Love it

6 stars

Dean

Rough Justice
Ladies Night

Just read your "ten", Julie, and this is your most assured and enjoyable chapter so far. A few odd typos, and I think "screws" is well-known enough parlance to not need explanation, but otherwise I wouldn't change a thing. As for Vinnie, well, who's the daddy, lol. xxx

raw and gripping and a hard story to read. you have done it all well....
j

Chapter 9. Well done Jue, your writing is always informative and easy to read. More important than that though is it's obviously written by someone who knows what they're talking about. I was raised on a council estate - nowhere near as rough as this one mind, and you describe the poverty/crime trap and the characters really well. I don't profess to being a gifted editor, but I couldn't find any technical errors. A darned good show.

Hi Julie,

The first three chapters are really gripping. This is a scary and interesting glimpse into life in poverty. I'm not familiar with this estate in the U.K. (I'm American), but I can easily relate it to similar estates in Chicago or New York City.

I don't usually like when writers dip in and out of characters' heads but in this book it works. I'm not sure why. Maybe because it not only introduces us to the characters more rapidly, but it also replicates the chaos that these people live with.

I found the writing very good, the descriptions strong, and the dialogue probably realistic (I'm certainily not an expert on British slang). There was only one thing that confused me. In chapter one I read that Vinnie was June's oldest child, but then in chapter two Vinnie went to his older sister's house. I'm guessing that she's his half-sister. It kind of jarred me because it wasn't explained.

I could feel for Vinnie because of his youth, and hoped that his being sent away would help him change his direction, but when I looked again at the pitch, I see he's not going to get any better.

I will definitely keep reading to see how it all plays out, especially since in my own book I'm writing about a troubled school and gangs and troublemakers. It's an interesting topic to me. Good luck with this and I hope you'll keep adding chapters.

Susan/Greenleaf (Chameleon)

It's a sad truth that when tackling a subject like this it is nearly always impossible to write it how it was/is without the casual observer thinking the realms of imagination had been stretched beyond the point of fantasy in order to achieve dramatic effect. Coming from Bradford and knowing all about the infamy of the Canterbury estate, I can say that Jue Shaw's portrayal is as close to the bone as you can get, and she captures all the despair, depravity, twisted morality and systemic violence perfectly, as well as the blind loyalty and dark humour that runs like a rich vein through all the shit.
Without resorting to cliches, the author tells it like it is, and the dialogue leaps off the page shockingly real, in a style I probably first noticed in John King's Headhunters.
I know this is all set in the seventies yet I suspect little has changed, as I regularly travel along Southfield Lane and observe amongst the great unwashed a June or a Jock queing outside the post office for the fortnightly giro.
Looking forward to reading more.
No nits apart from odd slip of the keyboard. & Chapt. 8 is duplicated for Chapt. 9
Derryl.

I'm loving this book right now. I'm actually going to back it because it's just familiar enough for me to like it but with the accents and European feel, it's foreign and new enough for me to still be eager about what's going to happen next. Great writing. The dialogue is beautiful.

Gordon Ramsey ways scatter over your book with the F-word. Filty mouth Vinnie need to calm down

{Canterbury Warriors} – Julie Shaw
Chapter 2:

I just want to mention that I love your vivid and raw portrayals. Your writing is very dynamic and I like how we see the characters interact with one another. This drives the story, making it very engaging and appealing.

Here are a few editorial suggestions; I’ve picked out some easily-changeable instances of passive voice and demonstrated some rewordings. Hope this will help you with your edits!

I’d say ‘She sat slumped in an armchair’ → eliminates passive ‘was slumped’
Also, ‘her block Robbo squatted on the floor’ → again eliminates passive ‘was squat’

Perhaps ‘Though only eight o’clock, the kids chomped at the bit to get out..’

Para ‘They all watched…’ → ‘It hissed and put up a valiant fight’

Anyway, overall good stuff :)
Cara

Well this is gritty stuff. You've absolutely captured the atmosphere and your dialogue is bliss... don't let anyone tell you otherwise (and there's some here who will baulk at the amount of accent).

Not sure from the pitch or the chapters I've read where this story is going - so can't comment on how alluring it is or isn't (maybe you need to lure us in a bit more with the pitch??) - but certainly the style is there. Not necessarily what I'd choose to read - though I'd possibly watch this as a t.v. drama - but I think your setting, characterisation and pace are spot on... just cannot see from here where the story might go.

On my shelf for a spin...

{Canterbury Warriors} – Julie Shaw
Chapter 1:

I loved the little intro poem, it works as a great introduction to your story! Then I like how you bring the reader right into the scene through your dialogue. It tells a lot about your characters, not only through the words they say but also through their manner and style of speech.

One tiny suggestion I have would be to reword some sentences to eliminate any unnecessary passive voice; especially in the opening para, because I know people can be very fussy about this and this is the first impression they get of your work. For example; “June McKellan stood in front…’ instead of ‘was standing’. Also I really like the last sentence of the chapter but I’d reword to ‘She pulled her fur coat closer around her as all thoughts of her wayward son slipped to the back of her mind.’

Would also be cautious about saying things like he ‘was feeling’, because you have such great ways of describing anyway, and the scene is so vivid, that to say something plain like that sort of detracts a little. E.g. ‘Vinnie was feeling uncomfortable…’ -→ ‘Beneath his mam’s scrutiny, Vinnie’s shoulder twitched slightly and betrayed his discomfort.’

Overall, I love your representation of these characters and you have a way with words to make readers connect. I particularly like the part where June is looking ‘sadly at her eldest child,’ her observations of him – good lead in to the action.

Well done, I look forward to reading more!
Cara :)

Read three chapters, gripping! Poor Sue! I know Vinnie is bad but I hope he finds out and... Well, that's why I,m gonna keep reading. Actually felt like I was in that smelly cold house! Really good.

Actually, there is a place like that in Philadelphia. I used it in my book. But I was a little kinder to the people. You did a good job showing the nature and culture of this place. I like the way you set it up and followed through on things we were half expecting. The characters ring true too. Good luck with this, I give it four stars and am sure it will be published. Good luck.

Posted twice(it's that second 8)LOL

Just finished what you've got up here so far. You are on my shelf and I only expect two things from you......
First finish this thing cause I gota see what you do to that perve up stairs and drop the second chapter eight.... I thought I was loosing my mind....
Thanks for the read...Grey

This is grim up north without the cobbles and the satanic mills. As a former social worker, I found the narrative all so familiarly normal. It's easy to compare and contrast the characters as skivers and strivers: I found they were more or less in equal proportion on the "sink estates" that were in my London manor in the 70's & 80's. Life was so awful there: even the squatters were begging for transfers and cockroaches were flinging themselves onto the poisons. Overall, a beautifully observed and superbly created series of scenarios replete with social realism. A further bonus is that there is distinct filmic possibilities in the 9 Chapters posted. ******* max. Tony Brady - SCENES FROM AN EXAMINED LIFE - Books 1,2, & 3.

Hi, there – this is a review from AudreyB. I am often accompanied on my reviews by my English teacher alter-ego, The Grammar Hag. If I say anything you don’t like, it was probably her idea.

My father grew up in Bridgeton, Glasgow long before there were any council estates. His family of ten lived in a “but and a ben” with the bathroom outside in the close. So, you know, I’m not going to be all surprised by what real life is like.

The first chapter is tremendous. I like the way you open with the two parents; it leaves the reader thinking ‘what kinds of kids have these two raised?’ And then right on cue, one runs in. He behaves exactly as I expect. I did wonder, though, why Sally told him he’d be arrested? A smart fella would run, no? Why does she come over to announce it?

The universal sign of the psychopath is the killing of small animals, so I won’t be surprised by anything Vinnie does now. And my heart is breaking for the three kiddles of the sister and the idiot.

I don’t get the abuse heaped on redheads in Britain. Surely you know the mating call of the blonde? No? It’s “I’m soooo drunk!” The mating call of the brunette, is of course, “All the blondes have gone home!” So what’s the mating cry of the redhead? “Next!”

I think Bacon neck Brian might be Bacon Neck Brian.

I love how Vinnie is acquainted with Miss Havisham. Just saw the Masterpiece Classic version of that. Anyway—it alludes to the fact that despite one’s circumstances, one can still read. An important concept for me.

First para, Ch 7…”that it was day…” I think you wanted “that it was the day…” I am doing a terrible job of finding nits because this story is so engrossing.

I like the way you show us Vinnie’s thoughts, because his reactions are seldom anything like what I would be thinking in a similar situation. I mean, even though I get that he’s an awful criminal, I can’t think like one, and need the reminders.

You’ve got ‘these tow’ where you want ‘these two.’ In the jailhouse scene.

Jue, I’ve read the whole thing, and all I have to say is, “Where’s the rest?” This is a remarkable story. Whatever nits I missed will doubtless be repaired by the editor who is sure to read this soon. You’ve got a fantastic character, a variety of hellish settings, and the right voice to carry it all off. Great job.

~AudreyB
Forgiveness Fits

Wow Julie this takes me away. I am having some trouble with the language differences but these people are real for me. Great job.

I’ve read to chapter two of your book and so far I can say I liked your first chapter but I felt like you jumped around with respects to narration a bit and it was a little hard to follow for the first couple of paragraphs. The second was good, a chance to see Vinnie as more than just the troublemaker. I found it really sweet how he cared about his nieces and nephew. Excellent use of shock with the cat, I knew from the blurb that Vinnie was going to be diagnosed criminally insane but this was the first time the reader actually saw it. I’ve really enjoyed what I’ve read so far. Good job :)

Hey! Thanks for the title help! :)

So, the title made me think it was going to be historical - don't ask me why.
So it was a wonder when I started reading the pitch that it wasn't...and then I began reading and it was an amazing surprise.
I think you have managed to capture life in this estate in this time very well. The characters all seem real and not 2d, which is actually a difficult thing to do.
I think you've captured brilliant family dynamics here, enough that you can see the little snide but loving jibes they take out of each other.

I would say, however, maybe there is a tad too much swearing? Personally, I'm okay with it, but some readers may be put off by this much. Just a suggestion.

A very believable and different story.
Well done!

Alex

Just read to chapter 5 and was very impressed.
You've really given a great insight into the lives of these people in the story and written in a very powerful way.
I can relate to some of the incidents and the attitudes of the characters thanks to some of the people I come into contact with through work.
A great read with believable characters.
Mike.
(Rudolf Goes Bananas)

Really good stuff, Julie. Highly starred and on my shelf. The prose is extremely polished with an engagingly conversational, almost chatty quality which feels like a perfect fit for this style of narration. I love the way you drop nuggets of vernacular into the prose (eg twifters, lifting, snicket) and just leave them unexplained. Even if the reader doesn't immediately know what a word or phrase means (I still haven't got a clue what a twifter is!!) it doesn't matter. It's the realism of the narration/dialogue that's important. This feels like a fully formed, complete world and the reader is just watching what's happening, eavesdropping on conversations etc. Terrifically involving way to tell your story.

The dialogue is superb - real and gritty and often very, very funny (I particularly liked 'young ginger bollocks here fancies his chances'!!) I love the way you leave much of it freestanding (without dialogue tags) - clever way to heighten the engagingly filmic quality of the narrative. My only criticism (it's not really a criticism, more of an observation) is that, while I couldn't fault any of the conversational exchanges, there was a slight feeling of uniformity to the various voices. Everyone seems to be terrifically fluent, effortlessly foul-mouthed and gifted with a wryly comic, subtly profound way with words?? Maybe try and make the various voices a little more distinct?? Just a thought.

The sense of time and place is subtly but very persuasively conveyed. It's clear when and where this is set but the various cultural references etc don't intrude on the narrative. They're just there to add a deft reminder of the setting. Nicely done. (By the way, I don't think the opening paras of the book are really a prologue. They're more of an author's note, something which probably should be contained outside the main body of the text??)

I have to say my heart usually sinks when I see letters incorporated verbatim into a novel (and I usually end up skimming them) but, maybe because of their brevity, I didn't find the letters in your opening chapters too much of a distraction (altho I still think the novel would have a better flow if you kept the full text of the letters hidden and just had the sender/recipient replaying a particular sentence or phrase in his/her head to suggest to the reader the essence of the letter??)

The plot feels well thought out and multi layered and, due to the blend of drama, pathos, black comedy, social realism etc, should appeal to a good cross section of readers. I do think you're probably going to lose a large chunk of potential readers because of the very gritty language but, if you edited out the swear words etc, you'd end up losing the realism which is at the heart of what, in my opinion, makes the novel so involving.

In short, a stylishly written, very original, often terrifically funny opening. Thanks and best of luck. P

I love the concept, having lived on estates like that. I have to wonder though, at the style: it's written with a clear effort at gritty realism, but the slang and general idiom raise some issues. American readers will almost certainly find the slang impenetrable, while English readers will pick up bum notes. I'm curious, Julie, if your ear for the dialogue is authentic, e.g. is this the result of research or of first-hand experience?

Hello Julie,
Read first three chapters.
An invigorating read. very Ken Loach.
Empathy-yes, for June.
Is it publishable? Standard of writing is high and you would imagine there is a target audience (schools would love this to get the kids reading before attacking wuthering Heights).
Good luck with it! I have no constructive criticisms I'm afraid. High stars and on my WL.
John
'Dropping Babies'

Canterbury Warrior has so many layers to it that it reminds me of a gypsy wedding dress! Every town and city has estates like this so even if the reader doesn't come from one they are aware of what it is all about. The picture you paint is very bleak but very accurate. It also reflects the code of behaviour that is at the very heart of this kind of environment. June is protective of her son Vinnie even though she knows deep down that he does commit the crimes that he is being accused of. Jack his father has a way of coping with the family by burying his head in the sand and hoping that by his absence it will shield him from what is going on within those four walls. Lyndsay and Robbo are equally disjointed people but their chances of making a new life are far less and through drugs choice has been taken away from them and it's just a matter of surviving from one hit to the next. I work in social services and my cousin works in a drugs team so I can verify that the way you portray these things is accurate. Well done. Six stars.

Karen (Pain)

I couldn't say it was near to home, even though I lived only a few miles away across the city, also on an estate. It must be a generational thing, because when I left Bradford, the estate I lived on was clean and ordered, and people in the main worked for a living. Then it seems the social rot set in when the work dried up. Massive factories and mills closed down, tens of thousands lost their jobs. Drugs came in, people lost hope I guess. When I went back up north 25 years later I went to live in Elland, instead of Bradford. I had my own issues then, my own problems. There used to be a working Gannex factory before I left, the town was prosperous. When I returned it had closed down and so had the town. Then I saw social deprivation on a scale I had never seen before. I lived among that social deprivation because I had no where else to go. The drunks, the drugs, the filth, the neglect, the poverty, the crime, the stupid drunken fights over nothing really, and the desperation of some people wanting to believe that things will get better. Your book captures this well. I have no sympathy for Vinnie at all. I have met women like his mother, all fur coat and no knickers. Funny because I like her really, she's got "bottle." Really well done it's taken me back to a period I remember only too well. 6 stars - Mick

Hi Julie, I've enjoyed meeting you on the Forums (that fantastic displacement activity at the top right hand side of my screen) and am glad to have now made time to read the first five chapters of Canterbury Warriors. A subject close to my heart I think you have a rare skill to draw an unflinching picture of society in this community. Pithy, pacey and realistic I thought Vinnie's attitude and conflicting emotions - pride, fear, humour and a knee-jerk reaction to draw attention with outrageous behaviour - were very convincing. I enjoyed his letters home in Chapter 5 a lot, and for me they drew a more rounded picture of his character.

I felt sad reading about June, whose sense of helplessness about her husband and son is palpable. The abuse scene where Melvin takes Sue was chilling and actually for me quite unexpected and shocking. The picture of Vinnie's sister's household was also vibrant and full.

You have a rare skill - well done. I wish you well with getting this published.

P.S. forgot to say I have now starred it well and am returning it to w/l until it can take a twirl on my bookshelf.

Since you are in early draft I don't even know it is helpful to mention it but... there are some punctuation points missing, especially around the dialogue. unfortunately I am trawling through mine with this point in mine so I couldn't help noticing. :)

Best for now, Sarah

This reminds me a bit of Zora Hurston’s “Their Eyes Were Watching God”

The story made me feel, for lack of a better word, queasy. I, as a crazy cat lady in training, couldn’t believe that cat scene, but I felt a little queasy before that point. The story is portrayed quite realistically.

The characters are believable to a degree, some of their reactions are not.
For example, when June finds out that Vinnie was lying she reacted quite strongly, but also quite suddenly when her interior thoughts showed she wouldn’t have. Just a few paragraphs before:
“…he wasn’t the evil twat that everyone made him out to be…now it seemed she was going to defend him again.”
Then she did no defending, she just kind of explodes at Vinnie.

The dialogue works okay. The dialect was hard to get use to at first, but then you get into the rhythm of it.

I don’t like the head hopping. I don’t have problem with multi-POV, but this is done in a bit of a jarring way. One second you’re there, and then one minute you’re in someone else’s head. It does create a bit of a jumpy-actiony feel, but it does sacrifice some of the suspense that might be built up by not knowing exactly what’s in the other character’s head.

You also do a bit of telling with the emotions. For example, when Vinnie is at his sister’s house talking to

Robbo you write, “Vinnie glared at the idiot. He hated him and Couldn’t understand what his sister saw in him.”
It was obvious before that that Vinnie disliked Robbo, and repeating it weakens the writing.

Thanks for replying on the thread. :)

I like it, this is one of the first works I've read on here that is really gritty and brutal to read. 6 stars!

I loved this book. At first, I was a little put off by the swearing, but the longer I read the more the words worked their way into the language. It flowed smoothly and that was amazing.
I will also say that this is the first time on this site that I had to put a book down, so to say. What happened to Sue was rough. Just the way you worded it, leaving it to the imagination was a great choice.
On wards, the story had a Catcher in the Rye feel to it with Vinnie. He was a lot of fun to read and his letters were great. I also liked his mother's reaction to the letter. The family is messed up but it's clear that they still love each other.
Vinnie was a strange character. On one hand, he hangs out with his nieces and nephew, but then he mutilates the cat in front of the kids and so is the story of Vinnie. He is sympathetic to a point but then nature kicks in and that seems be the way it goes. He goes from writing a note to his sister to following it up with a fight. He is a fun character and I really want more time with him.
I didn't go through and correct grammar mainly because I'm not that well acquainted with that time and the vernacular. This was a really good read; I think it's also a book you'll have to read more than once to get everything out of.

Reading this reminded me of the first time I read The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists for the first time. I was totally drawn into Vinnie's world and I'm sure other readers on this site will want to back it too. Backed
Lara
A RELATIVE LOSS

Jue:

I was drawn immediately into Canterbury Warriors because of its authentic feel. Much of that authenticity has to do with the confident use of a harsh English vernacular that is compelling to read. Also, the language is employed convincingly to paint a portrait of characters living a bleak reality. Although at times I felt suffocated by the dire circumstances surrounding these people's lives, I was nonetheless impressed by your willingness to confront difficult issues head-on, and I marvel at your skill in creating a credible, three-dimensional world for the audience to behold.

Good luck with this.

Rob

Jue - I take my hat off to you. You could only have written this raw, fresh dialogue and drawn in such fine detail these tragic, blustering, lost characters, by being there yourself on that estate day after day, and working closely with families like this one. If there is a story, it seems as if it can only go one way. Thorpe Arch, 1972. I was there doing a placement. Exactly like the film 'Scum'. - and the same things are still happening today in Newcastle, Dublin, Birmingham..... I hope your story has a small glimmer of light and hope at the end of this dark tunnel. Two points - is Vinnie the protagonist, or is it the Nipper? And I would begin with the Warrior's song. You don't need a prologue - it 's all beautifully said in the chapters. I can't rank this properly, for me there isn't enough to go on, but I'm giving it 5 for now. It deserves to be shelved and I will try and squeeze it in soon. Respect, Fan K

Gutsy, gritty and not one for the faint-hearted. Backed and highly starred.
Adelle

The first paragraph of the first chapter tells the reader exactly what to expect. This is really tough, gritty writing told with a very authentic narrative. I've read the first two chapters, and was enthralled by its bleakness. As a council estate-raised lad myself, your description of dysfunctional families is spot on. Such families have an incredibly strong bond despite everything, and you got that aspect across especially well. I have to say I found the 'cat' incident upsetting at the end of the second chapter, but you're telling a tough story and aren't compromising - that's highly admirable and shows you're deadly serious about your writing.

Glad to discover another quality writer working in this style of story. Yourself, Nathan and Rob are doing a fabulous job for your genre.

Pete

PS. Really liked the Marty Feldman 'stoned eyes' description!

Hello Julie--

book--The Canterbury Tales--

Well, how did it take me so long to stumble on this book 70 80s , depicting life on the Canterbury housing estate during that time. It will certainly be of historical interest to social historians in future years-
It is not glossed over in any way, every line so grim-so realistic-so gritty- and so anything else that comes to mind-
This read leaves other similar stories in the shade, compared to Angelas Ashes for instance. the roughness of this one leaves that story far behind.; and that sold millions throughout the world=- yes there is a big market fot this genre--
The characters come to life so easily- Vinnie-June-Maureen- Sue and -loads more as they appear in the chapters-Recession times are permanent in this estate out side Bradford-
Each line of this book conjures up the smells and sayings of all and sundry, it's a world apart--
;the atmosphere authentic as the pages fly by, a story that remains in the minds eye., that's for sure.

The read got my attention from the start to finish of what's posted-
In it's genre, it gets my six stars;

tom bye
book-from hugs to kisses-
oblige and read some of mine about a boy growing up in the 40 in somewhat similar conditions, but maybe a step up !! and it's full of humour-thanks

This is very real ... I have family in Yorkshire so I can relate, although I'm a little young to remember the 70's :p .. I love the pace and angst of your writing - there are a lot of bad words but without them the story would be less heartfelt (for want of a better word) I think the use of a particular language portrays life's reality .. it just is ... end of.

Really good, Jue :)

Will find a space on my shelf, soonish.

Michelle.

Happy to back your work! Hope you have a chance to take a look at Dark Side by CC Brown. Good Luck.
61BBboy

Return read. Good book, although a little heavy on the epithets. Nicely done.
-Nissim
(Dragons, Heroes, and Animatronic Teddy-Bears)

Put thoughts in italics. I promised you that I would read your chapters. A gritty look at English life back in the early 70s. Much of the vernacular was confusing to me, but It was always real. Maybe too many passive sentences and some grammatical errors. But again, this way of speaking English is curious. I'm not sure if a omniscient narrator is the way to go in the POV, only you know. I noticed the use of he/she felt. Show how they feel. Overall, I like this novel. Far different than any other fiction on Authonomy. I think you've created a unigue voice. I'll Wl your book for now until I reshuffle.
All the best,
David Schild
The Next John Elway

A return read, and my most sincere apologies for taking so long to get back to you. I’m accompanied on my reviews by inner perfectionistic editor, and she can be a bit mean and grumpy at times. She doesn’t mean it…

Pitches: LP - the inner ed. stumbled where you had the word “down” twice in rapid succession (maybe hyphenate run-down?), immediately followed by two uses of “estate”. The inner ed. also prefers contractions wherever possible.

Prologue - I’d simply leave the poem attributed to Anon - the rest of the bit in brackets is Authorial Intrusion. The exclamation point is what does it for me the most. If I were a real agent, I wouldn’t be able to take you seriously after that point. Easily fixed.

Punctuation - I wasn’t sure about some of your sentence structuring. There were places I’d have used a full stop or semi-colon and you’ve used commas. Could be personal preference, but thought I’d say something. Also - a few places where I’d use contractions (e.g. when Vinnie is telling his mum he was in all night, he says “no doubt she will try and fit me up”). I also found several places where you don’t finish off your punctuation before closing your speech marks. E.g. “Flattery will get you everywhere Don” should have a comma after Don. This isn’t the only place so you need a careful proof read.

Overused words etc. - there were a fair few filter words and extraneous “that”s (sorry - after editing my own book recently, it’s one that jumps out at me now).

Overall opinion - not my usual style, with all the swearing (and I agree with ZoeSelina’s comment about male/female names) but I’m sure there’s a market for this. Your characters are believable and your description vivid but not intrusive. 5 stars from me and that doesn’t happen every day!

Hi Jue. I see you have a gap on your shelf. I thought you were going to shelve me when that became available. If you still rate Reasonable Force I'd appreciate you bunging me up on it. We need all the help we can get mate.
Cheers, Sully.

Jue, you asked we come and compare your recent CH8 to earlier work. I'lldo my best but I'm going to have to go back and re-read some first chapters as it has been a while since.

One thing I notice right away is in first paragraph. It is not a 'rule' per se as it is so much 'form' issue.

After your dialogue and the action attached where the sicial worker sits on the chair next to Junbe and throws a look at Vinnie, you should begin a new paragraph with the next sentence. It is all narrative to the end of the paragraph.

In the next sentence, (Bastion) should be capped. It is a proper name. Also a comma should be after barked(,)

Numbers, such as describing ages, should always be spelled out when under 100 (One hundred)

Went back and read it! This is a good story. Needs some punctuation and editing attention but it IS a really good story.

I know you appreciate honesty so I'mgoing to say this. At many points, it appears you get 'hurried' because I notice your mistakes seem to come in clumps. There are points where your attention to detail it very good but in others there are several punctuation issues in one paragraph.

As writers, we write when we are inspired. I'll be the first to acknowledge this. I get in a hurry and do the same exact stuff I see on your pages. One ofthe thigs we tend to do when we get 'hurried' is violate some of those so-called 'rules' of the trade you mentioned in the thread. Overuse of the word 'and' / 'had' / 'has' / repeating words in sentences etc,...

All in all, the story looks good. The pages need editing. As for the voice you asked about. I don't see a lick of difference in that.

Emmett

Yes, you are right, it is gritty. A bit too gritty, or salty for my taste. Your writing skills are good, tho, especially since this is a first draft. It says alot about your talent! Good luck with this!

Sincerely, D. S. Hale

Jessup and the Teleporter