Song at Dawn

I think you have a terrific opener here, straight into the action, no messing about. Which is good in historical fiction where there is a tendency to think you have to set the scene first before the plot.
What I like about this is that you have an unfamiliar, foreign setting in France but you make this no impediment to the enjoyment of the book for the lay reader. You throw in the unfamiliar names expertly and with but a dash of background that does not overwhelm the story.

To be honest, it was difficult to find any problems with your writing. You are a genius and you know how to put intelligent words in without making it seem like you just put it there. You must be a smart person to have an exquisite flow to your writing. I am not the smartest guy in the world and this isn’t at all my type of genre but I loved it. Your characters are very strong and your description is off the charts. I really mean that. They are extraordinary. 6 stars. I don’t have to think about that one.

One thing you might want to consider is splitting the chapter in two. It’s just way too long for a first chap and you don’t want to turn away any potential readers.

‘Be on guard, Danton, a woman can have a band of cut-throat . . .” You have no (funny, I was about to use ‘know’ :) ) idea how hard I laughed when he said that. I still can’t stop laughing. LOL! After this, I started laughing at everything the Commander said. He is sooo funny.

“For a heartbeat he thought he had . . . and that . . .” the last part ‘and that’ is a little confusing to me. I tried rereading it but something about it seemed a little off. Just check to see if it’s okay.

What I’m starting to notice is that you sometimes overdo things just a tad. With the commander and the girl, that scene is a bit long. It’s good but I was ready to move on. And you brought the song which was amazing by the way. Again, it was too long. Maybe we can hear her only play half the song. You can always post the entire song in the back of the book and make an appendix.

Ch 7 line four - accent wrong on Cite.

This is a book not to be taken lightly, it has depth and several interesting layers. The characters are three dimensional and entirely believable. I believe this book will earn a deserved place as a fine example of just how historical fiction should be writ. I found the scene with the assassin by the river side just a little confusing to start with and had to read it twice. Otherwise, a worthy tome that I am certain will make the editor's selection.

regards

Cyrus

HF Review continued--

I can't tell you how thrilling it is to read a historical novel that is reminiscent of my favourite historical novelist, Dorothy Dunnett. Chapters 2 and 3 come across so well polished with the wit and sparkle of the dialogue shining through, the various little historic details slipped in so seamlessly and the true understanding of the various cultural interplays and weaving that were a part of the time period (and so often unnoticed by historic novelists) that I couldn't help but think of writers like DD or Julia Merkle Riley. Dragonetz and his companion Moor are very well realized characters that add a strong sense of mystery as well as humour to the novel, as does the peasant wardrobe mistress and seamstress (great little touch there). As a musician I loved the addition of the music thread that provides and another interesting element to the time period and enabled me to learn about an instrument I knew nothing about (mandora). The witty exchange about her choice of songs was written in such an egaging manner while at the same time we learn another view of Eleanor in this time period than the hackneyed portrayals usually given.

The only few little nits that I will mention is that in a few instances you capitalize words like "Knights" and "Commander" when they aren't directly addressing a particular person. Other than that on one occasion, just after Estela is knocked off her horse and she speculates if anyone would want to kill her you write, "They wouldn't care about that, that was for sure" -- that sounds so very modern and slangy to my ears and you might consider writing "that was certain" instead. But I know they tend to be more modern in usage for historical fiction, but it still doesn't ring true when I read it.

That said, I can only be compelled to ask that you let me know when it's published so I can read the full length book, because I'm sure some agent/publisher will eventually pick this up. Highly starred. Kristin

- Song at Dawn -

(Based on chapters 1-3)

From the very off, it's clear that you're reading a classy piece of historical fiction with this. The author drops us straight into the action and tension and we want to know who this mystery girl is and how she got into this predicament. From there, the story expands, taking in the politics, religion, culture and languages of the time. The book is full of learning - I was particularly impressed by the political background in chapter two and the use and discussion of Arabic in chapter 3.

The most impressive thing has to be the wide array of characters involved in the story. Even three chapters in, there is a kind of Tolstoyan sweep and scope to things as we encounter so many different characters from various backgrounds and levels of society. I must admit, I did sometimes get a bit mixed up with who was who but on the other hand, I remeber the same thing happening to me when I read War and Peace - I had to keep referring to the dramatis personae in the index for the first fifth of so of the book.

Following on from the last issue is the nice changing of points of view within chapters. It's always baffled me that one of the most oft repeated 'rules' around these parts is that one should not change POV within a chapter because apparently readers cannot follow it. But plenty of published authors do it so I don't know where the 'rule' has come from and the first three chapters of Song at Dawn proive ample evidence that it can be done without problem.

If I have one nitpick, it would be that in the first chapter I found it a little hard to follow Alienor's conversation at times. There was a lot of information and all in dialogue. I had a feeling that a bit of 'telling' from the author here might have made things more readily digestible.

As I say though, classy stuff and very good indeed.

All the best with it,

Ross

i really enjoy historical fiction. you have a great premise and a strong opening.
j
what every woman should know

i really like this premise. i enjoy historical fiction a lot. this is a good story.
j
what every woman should know

i really like this premise. i enjoy historical fiction a lot. this is a good story.
j
what every woman should know

So far I’m really liking this. The first paragraph is crafted excellently. I’m drawn in right away. I want to find out more.

I slept with a Burmese mountain dog once. Can totally relate to the third paragraph! Heh. (Wait, I think that sounds bad. I didn't "sleep with" - I just slept in a bed and was joined by...never mind...)

I like your description of the grape vine stumps like lounging cats...I could really picture that!

The writing here is excellent.

"his anatomy preferred to follow its own will rather than God's" - I love that line!

Okay, I'm convinced, you have a way with words. I am a lover of historical fiction and I am in love with this book.

How could an agent/editor read this and not want to publish it?

Your main character is plucky and wise beyond her years. There is real fear here, real danger, but also pomp and circumstance, but there is also humor and the surprise of the instrument - not what anyone expects.

Highly starred.

- Rena (Bunderful) author of Master of the Miracles

I have just backed your book. Perhaps, you will return the favour and back mine, Penrose - Princess of Penrith. If you do, many thanks. Best wishes, john.

I have just backed your book. Perhaps, you will return the favour and back mine, Penrose - Princess of Penrith. If you do, many thanks. Best wishes, john.

I think you have a terrific opener here, straight into the action, no messing about. Which is good in historical fiction where there is a tendency to think you have to set the scene first before the plot.
What I like about this is that you have an unfamiliar, foreign setting in France but you make this no impediment to the enjoyment of the book for the lay reader. You throw in the unfamiliar names expertly and with but a dash of background that does not overwhelm the story.

To be honest, it was difficult to find any problems with your writing. You are a genius and you know how to put intelligent words in without making it seem like you just put it there. You must be a smart person to have an exquisite flow to your writing. I am not the smartest guy in the world and this isn’t at all my type of genre but I loved it. Your characters are very strong and your description is off the charts. I really mean that. They are extraordinary. 6 stars. I don’t have to think about that one.

One thing you might want to consider is splitting the chapter in two. It’s just way too long for a first chap and you don’t want to turn away any potential readers.

‘Be on guard, Danton, a woman can have a band of cut-throat . . .” You have no (funny, I was about to use ‘know’ :) ) idea how hard I laughed when he said that. I still can’t stop laughing. LOL! After this, I started laughing at everything the Commander said. He is sooo funny.

“For a heartbeat he thought he had . . . and that . . .” the last part ‘and that’ is a little confusing to me. I tried rereading it but something about it seemed a little off. Just check to see if it’s okay.

What I’m starting to notice is that you sometimes overdo things just a tad. With the commander and the girl, that scene is a bit long. It’s good but I was ready to move on. And you brought the song which was amazing by the way. Again, it was too long. Maybe we can hear her only play half the song. You can always post the entire song in the back of the book and make an appendix.

Hi Jean,

Nice to see you still writing so well. Good luck with this book. Happy to back it. Derec

Saw the message to my sister and thanks again for your support. I'll take a look as promised as soon as I can and I'll make room for you too when I finish up some others!

Best of luck in the meantime,

Diane

Ch 7 line four - accent wrong on Cite.

This is a book not to be taken lightly, it has depth and several interesting layers. The characters are three dimensional and entirely believable. I believe this book will earn a deserved place as a fine example of just how historical fiction should be writ. I found the scene with the assassin by the river side just a little confusing to start with and had to read it twice. Otherwise, a worthy tome that I am certain will make the editor's selection.

regards

Cyrus

Thanks, Cyrus. I do want nitpick comments as I am going to do a detailed proofread in a couple of weeks, taking comments here into account, and making corrections.

You write very evocatively of this era. This is patently a period you have studied in great depth. This is not a novel to be taken lightly, it is thoughtful and measured - I am really enjoying this tale. Couple of minor points: Chapter 6 paragraph 2- the word 'hairdo' jarred a little, not certain it is quite right. There's a mis-spelling of Nici, second paragraph from the end of chapter 6. Please let me know if you do not want me to make comments on spellings etc. Great stuff I will return to this soon.

regards

Cyrus

Hmm, I’m quite at loss for words here. This piece is heavy historical fiction yet I can read though it like a breeze. You have such a pleasant balance between deep and informative and light and entertaining. I don’t often read this genre, if ever, but I could honestly have read all this if time allowed.
You have opened with a hook, a young runaway girl that I just must learn more about. You have plenty of description but it never feels heavy or overdone, just offers a wonderful sense of place.
I honestly can’t find fault here. Sorry, I know I am being no help at all.
Best of luck, I have no doubt this will do well,
Janny

Hi this is Cyrus. It was your profile that drew me to your book, I have returned from France after 5 years in Normandy. The genre within which you write is where I normally look for something to read. I found the first couple of chapters intriguing, tense and bright. I struggle with medieval names but I'm sure that the association will become clearer as I read on - which I will. Good luck with this book I can tell you are passionate about detail and it is apparent that you are writing about something of which you know a great deal.

with regards

Cyrus

Song at Dawn. A HF Review. Very aptly named, and an atmospheric cover. Your pitch prepares me for a story which has so many ramifications down to present days.

I take notes as I read, but dont pretend to be an expert.

Ch.1. An unusual start. I enjoy the bit with the dog. And you begin weaving the plot, making the reader wonder about what's coming next.
You have an easily readable style, and the bedraggled picture of the 16 year-old runaway girl emerging from the ditch comes vividly to mind.
Your powers of description are admirable, and I am transported into your story. There's nothing I feel I have to comment on. The girl's voice winding round the strings in perfect harmony - I can hear a golden melody, and what lovely verses.
I wonder whose dainty boot lashed out...

Ch.2. I am presented with almost uniform blocks of text, which scroll down my screen in monotonous chunks. I cant put my finger on the lines, like a book, and am inclined to lose my place. Perhaps it could be broken up into dialogue, to move the story onward?
But I want to persevere.
I enjoy your forays into nature (the mallards).
The scenes on the road flow more easily, and you end the chapter with a crafty little hook.

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this, and will come back for more.
Meanwhile, multi starred and onto my w/list for rotational backing with many others.
You deserve to make good progress on this site.

Jane. (Breath of Africa).

You are immediately taken into this world, next to this character who is so alive with emotion. Of course I was taken with the musician aspect of it, it is close to my heart. The way you have described everything is compelling and certainly descriptive enough to create this setting in the reader's mind very well. I myself feel drenched and ready to take cover.

I am but a pair of chapters in and thus far, it is flawless. Looking forward to reading further, and I am delighted to read more true medieval works. It's a time period I have been taken with since I was a child, reading 'A Door in the Wall'.

~E. Raif

HF Review continued--

I can't tell you how thrilling it is to read a historical novel that is reminiscent of my favourite historical novelist, Dorothy Dunnett. Chapters 2 and 3 come across so well polished with the wit and sparkle of the dialogue shining through, the various little historic details slipped in so seamlessly and the true understanding of the various cultural interplays and weaving that were a part of the time period (and so often unnoticed by historic novelists) that I couldn't help but think of writers like DD or Julia Merkle Riley. Dragonetz and his companion Moor are very well realized characters that add a strong sense of mystery as well as humour to the novel, as does the peasant wardrobe mistress and seamstress (great little touch there). As a musician I loved the addition of the music thread that provides and another interesting element to the time period and enabled me to learn about an instrument I knew nothing about (mandora). The witty exchange about her choice of songs was written in such an egaging manner while at the same time we learn another view of Eleanor in this time period than the hackneyed portrayals usually given.

The only few little nits that I will mention is that in a few instances you capitalize words like "Knights" and "Commander" when they aren't directly addressing a particular person. Other than that on one occasion, just after Estela is knocked off her horse and she speculates if anyone would want to kill her you write, "They wouldn't care about that, that was for sure" -- that sounds so very modern and slangy to my ears and you might consider writing "that was certain" instead. But I know they tend to be more modern in usage for historical fiction, but it still doesn't ring true when I read it.

That said, I can only be compelled to ask that you let me know when it's published so I can read the full length book, because I'm sure some agent/publisher will eventually pick this up. Highly starred. Kristin

HF Review (part 1)

I've read the opening chapter of your novel and found it very engaging and showing skilled writing. I have to say the premise appealed to me as much from the setting and time period as the story line. Both unfold well here with accurate historical descriptions and detailed scattered throughout the narrative as well as the subtly built tension. The characters you have created are distinct through their actions, clothes and diaologue to form a very satisfying beginning. You have resisted the temptation to overburden the reader with too much backstory and instead create intriguing mysteries about the main character. The historical details are woven in skillfully and demonstrate a thorough knowledge of the time period and events. The only one detail I wondered about is the use of petticoat which I thought came about later in the medieval period. My understanding would be that a servant would dress in a shift and over dress or kirtle (depending how low), but with the accuracy of every other area, you might know better. Other than that the only comment I might venture for you to consider is the use of elipses in most places when I think you mean to use em-dashes. Elipses are for trailing off and em-dash is for interruptions. The way I read it is that in most cases you meant interruptions. But these are very minor details for an excellent opening. I'lll read on tomorrow and comment further. Kristin

- Song at Dawn -

(Based on chapters 1-3)

From the very off, it's clear that you're reading a classy piece of historical fiction with this. The author drops us straight into the action and tension and we want to know who this mystery girl is and how she got into this predicament. From there, the story expands, taking in the politics, religion, culture and languages of the time. The book is full of learning - I was particularly impressed by the political background in chapter two and the use and discussion of Arabic in chapter 3.

The most impressive thing has to be the wide array of characters involved in the story. Even three chapters in, there is a kind of Tolstoyan sweep and scope to things as we encounter so many different characters from various backgrounds and levels of society. I must admit, I did sometimes get a bit mixed up with who was who but on the other hand, I remeber the same thing happening to me when I read War and Peace - I had to keep referring to the dramatis personae in the index for the first fifth of so of the book.

Following on from the last issue is the nice changing of points of view within chapters. It's always baffled me that one of the most oft repeated 'rules' around these parts is that one should not change POV within a chapter because apparently readers cannot follow it. But plenty of published authors do it so I don't know where the 'rule' has come from and the first three chapters of Song at Dawn proive ample evidence that it can be done without problem.

If I have one nitpick, it would be that in the first chapter I found it a little hard to follow Alienor's conversation at times. There was a lot of information and all in dialogue. I had a feeling that a bit of 'telling' from the author here might have made things more readily digestible.

As I say though, classy stuff and very good indeed.

All the best with it,

Ross

Here we go then:

Twelfth Century France not really my area of expertise so I will be looking at it purely as a reader. Please remember that all comments are just one persons opinion and should not be taken as gospel.

If she had cramp in her leg that would be her main focus, she would not be able to stretch. Waking up with leg cramp is agony. In fact, with the rest of the opening I'd cut the leg cramp - it would wake her up abruptly.

I think perhaps you overuse "she" in the beginning. I understand that you don't want to name her this early on, but maybe add some description so you can refer to her in that sense... I'll expand... if you even referred to her as "the girl" occasionally it would reduce the repetition and feel less like a list.

Aw, never start a sentence with and. A sentence needs to stand alone therefore and is unnecessary. Remove the "and" - wordcount be damned!

Large party of horse? Should this be horses?

I think you're calling her the girl for too long. Name her, even if you change it later.

I'm gunna take a break cos I feel I've said quite a bit. If you want more of my incredibly insightful thoughts I'll return.

need to read more....

This is very well-written and entertaining. The primary characters are developing nicely and the pace is appropriate for this genre. While some of the dialogue may not be representative of the period, I find it a much easier read without that level of authenticity. My only complaint: I would love to have a few more chapters to read in order to validate the premise of your short synopsis. Already on my shelf with a four star rating.

Alienor is indeed in the early stages of pregnancy but that doesn't get mentioned till Chapter 4. My intention was just to post the opening chapters but I'll let you know if I post more and thanks for wanting to read on!

Skimmed through again after your latest update. The introduction of Ermengarda in Narbonne is intriguing and adds threads to the tale at the start of ch2 but Alienor hasn't reached Narbonne by the end of ch3 and we may have forgotten what was said about Ermengarda by the time she does. Why not introduce her in the chapter preceeding Alienor's arrival in Narbonne? Also may have missed it but wasnt Alienor in the early stages of pregnancy at the time the tale opens? I guess we'll find out out when you upload ch4. When are you uploading ch4 ?

The power of description in the scenes is top of the line great. The poem adds interest. I think you have a winner here. Backed Chuck

Thanks, Ophelia. I translated it from the medieval Occitan (old southern French) using a modern french translation to help me, so it's a real folk song.

I love it! Did you write the poem that is the song or is it a real folk song?

That's great, detailed input. The formatting seems to have gone iffy in uploading here - is fine in the original. looked up all the details on what an arbelestier can reasonably do but hadn't made a distinction between arbelest and crossbow - the terms were used interchangeably but there are different types of crosbow. I'l check a this again. Horses do scream in pain - horrible.


It's tough decidng on what verse to include, how much, how to present it etc. I sometimes think of it like Tokien's Elvish verse - I know most people will skip it but it's important to the charcaters, who are trobadours after all, and it does add flavour to see the Occitan. I'm a published poet so poetry is important to me. I translated the Occitan verse myself,using a French translation alongside the Occitan to help me.The word Oltra Mar is Occitan rather than Franc/Northern French and throughout the novel I've used some Occitan words, names and spellngs, using French or Englh wherever I thought they were needed for clarity. Nici means 'Stupid' in Occitan, hence the dog's name, and my pseudo. I use an Occitan-English dictionary and my own French, which is not bad, to research from some primary sources, including the poems themselves.

How funny that we use some of the same elements, which is one reason I'm interested in your book, but they are quite differerent in characters and stories. As you know, Arabic was widely spoken in the south of France, not just by returning crusaders, and Persian poetry really was well known by the refined nobles and troubadours. I have a feeling this was my translation again, of the Khayyam verse, but based on the Fitzgerald and a couple of other English translations I found online. I think it's fine to include the Fitzgerald translation in a novel and there are no copyright problems. I'll check back on my quoted verse and you know.

I have read some of the popular published novels set amongst Crusaders/Templars etc but I'm usually disappointed either by the total lack of historical accuracy or too much history/disappointing storytelling. The ones I liked best are the Jan Guillou trilogy.

I love the 12th century!

I had intended to post the 1st 3 chapters only, gather comments and think about them, but I'll let you know if I post more and thanks everyone for the encouragement so far.

Read the third chapter now and this comment is more off a notes swapping exercise so hope you don’t mind. Estela and Dragonetz and Al-Hisba are good three dimensional characters, Guillelma slightly less so. Like the best characters in fiction, as a reader I feel they are holding something back, have more substance and potential yet to be uncovered. Estela's thoughts in italics are perhaps too many. What is the difference between her thoughts in plain text in the next paragraph? I think with the verse snatches from Raimon de Miraval (great choice ) should probably be done in the English version only. One way of doing this but retaining the flavour of the langue d’oc or Norman French or Latin or whatever is being used is to write ‘she sang out the words in langue d’oc’ but then give the English version. Readers accept this.
When you come to the Khayyam quote from Al- Hisba I was slightly taken aback. The ‘tentmaker’ also appears in my own book and my MC has never heard of him either! I wondered if I would be ridiculed using the Fitzgerald version of the Rubaiyat but no one on the site has mentioned it and we are writing popular fiction after all, aren’t we? I am not sure if your quote is direct from Fitzgerald but it has the same sentiment of course, although perhaps in more modern usage. My book ends with Fitzgerald's closing verse.
The oltra –mar reference also interests me as I have stuck to outremer or outré-mer in my own tale. Not sure of the difference but would like to know
The balance in the middle of the chapter, much as I love it, is probably too much in favour of ‘telling’ of the literature music, history of Al-Andalus etc. More action is required. When Estela is knocked off her horse it should probably be ‘Estela sensed’ and ‘she flew’. The horse ‘screaming’ didn’t sound right. Perhaps a sigh or groan? I would be surprised if an arbalestier could have sent off five or six bolts in a minute. Two per minute was more likely even in expert hands. These were tough to load in the twelfth century. With the larger weapons the users had to lie on the ground and use their feet to prime the weapon. You should be careful about confusing arbalest with crossbow – two different weapons really. The formatting towards the end of ch3 (after the Arnaut episode) is iffy in places but can be easily fixed.Any way I love this tale! Please upload more soon.

I love historical fiction, read all that you have put up here......and am impatiently waiting for more. You have put in a lot of research and hard work and it really shows. Please do put up the rest of the book soon.

Chapter two is full of plotting and intrigue and further character development. Ermengarde in Narbonne who knows the recent history of Queen Alienor is again a fascinating character to introduce us to. As Alienors whispered relationship with her Uncle Raymond on the second crusade is a major plot thread in my own book, I was intrigued to see it mentioned in yours. However I wonder if this section should come further into the chapter as by the end of it Alienor hasn’t even reached Narbonne. Dragonetz and his scheming dominate the chapter. I was puzzled by the dagger drawn against Rauolf, by his land for a papermill negotiations with the Templars and by the sudden appearance of the Moor. I had to reread to get the sense of these developments. However the whole read drips with authenticity. Estela’s songs add greatly to the colour and the research you have done to back up the story is obvious. I know that these songs don’t translate easily from the langue d’oc but in their original version they of course might irritate some readers. The discussion over the ‘promissory notes’ was of course the beginning of our banking system. I wonder if you shouldn’t add a wry note of warning there given the recent history of these magnificent institutions! For me this is a proper page turner. Will keep ch3 as a treat for tomorrow.

This is historical fiction at its best. Well written with an intriguing storyline and easy to back.

Liz
The Cheech Room

Excellent writing and engaging narrative. Watchlisted and starred!

Song at Dawn – Jean Gill
Pitches. I would avoid repetition of the short pitch in the long pitch. This is my sort of tale though. The three named characters in the LP all sound strong and as an older version of Alienor features in my own book, I am hooked.
The mystery of what Estela is running away from is in the pitch, but who is Gilles and how can his false trail lead to her bloody remnants? - you will have to explain that later.
Don’t get the ‘like rows of wizened cats tortured on wires’ simile but feisty girl this Estela.
I was a bit confused by POV as we leave her. Whose head are we in at the start of the next section before you revert to third person narration. Good account of the well known tale of Bernard of Clairvaux’s commitment to an ascetic life and even better scene when Eleanors party encounters Estela. The action and interest really pick up at this point. However the narrators voice is very strong and at times dominates your characters too much. I would subdue his voice a little and let the interactions of your characters tell us the tale.
Loved the 6 point musical scale (It features in my book as well) and the Morning love song rendition – a high point of the chapter but probably you should cut the six verses to three or four. Why not have Alienor interrupt her to do this? Surely she would have made her mind up about the girl by the third verse and she was already impatient to continue on her journey. Great introduction to Dragonetz, who is shaping up to be a great creation and this chapter got much stronger in the second half. I will certainly read on. ****** and W/L for now.

The second paragraph took me in, punchy and vivid. I like the way the story unfolds and with it the uncovering of the dagger and instrument.
The dialogue is excellent, lines like,
'I cannot excercise my birthright when I am relegated to embroidery and garden design. It is insufferable.'
The characterisation of Estela is very strong and I am on her side straight away.
Hope to see more.
On my shelf!
christina

great period peace. well done. I love historical fiction.
j
what every woman should know