Mai Shangri-La

Hi Robert. You do an excellent job of fully visualizing life in the future. It's pleasant to have an original concept of our disasterous circumstances, without the unemtional setting many futurist books have. The minute details make it seem you've lived this life. To keep the reader alert, you could take out adjectives and adverbs without loosing effect. You obviously have a full understanding of your strong message, which you passionately share. You masterfully lead the reader through the obstacles and provide viable solutions. Thought provoking. Good luck. Janet Marie

Hi Robert,

Just got through the first chapter of this. I like it but there are a few paragraphs that are a bit thick and tough to get through.

Below is one sentence that I must ask, what the hell were you thinking:
When he thought of it, Reuben James was still amazed at the opportunities he had enjoyed. His second career as a school librarian had ill-prepared him to afford, in what were logically his sunset years, heroic measures to combat the ravages of aging, but a compulsion to document rising sea levels, Avian-Flu2 and the “Millennium Plague” over a 10 year period had left him, a Survivor, with a nascent manuscript in hand at a time when the world’s other Survivors were struggling to make sense of what had happened to their world.

That's a paragraph in and of itself.

Overall I like the premise of the manuscript. I see that you have put it online through Amazon. Good luck with it.

If you get the chance, and you haven't done so, and you're still coming to this site, please give my MS a read:
http://authonomy.com/ViewBook.aspx?bookid=4441

Good luck and best wishes,
Chris

For any readers getting this far. I've just released "Mai Shangri-La" on Amazon/Createspace, although I agree with Toscka's assessment below (and Lexi's and Patty's, below that) that it's front-heavy with redundant tripe. Scientific reports describe Arctic warming as the "canary in the coal mine" - but I need to "show", not "tell".

I know that from a marketing perspective, it's a mistake to release it now. I should "get it right" first. But I've got octagenarian parents who may not survive until I do (could be years yet - witness toscka's work on "The Stone Fables". I'm letting it go now. My plan is to revise and polish "the Wayback Machine" for ABNA1 (Feb.2nd), and then to come back to "Mai Shangri-La".

Would love to have some of you who've looked at "Mai Shangri-La" comment on "the Wayback Machine". I've come to think of you as "critical friends" who can help me be more efficient in rooting out my writing weaknesses.

It would also be (shameless plug follows) absolutely the best Christmas present ever to make a few sales on Amazon - and garner a few reviews there. If you're looking for something unique in a Christmas Gift, how about a "pre-pub edition" of Mai Shangri-La (once I trim it into shape, I KNOW it'll get picked up by a traditional publisher - but you could own a genuine collector's item..:)

Ok, with my agent's hat on (quick warning, one of my reviews went down like bad medicine today - feel free to ignore whatever I say). Without reading the synospsis or any comments, I begin...

Great opening, shaving will never be the same - 3 small comments "splotched" , it's a horrible word, "diaphenous rotor..." no doubt you are correct, but it made me stop, it made me step aside from the story for a second so weird was the combination of diaphenous and motor - never a good thing to make a reader pause for too long - the opening dialogue "Jee-zus...." it is only the last clause that had any meaning or resonance, "can't a guy get any peace around here" do you need the rest?

But, no, good so far, still reading...

"Reuban turned back to re-examine" - "He" would be better here.

By the way, this is the most engaging thing I have read to date with my 'agent's' hat. How damned refreshing to have a go at something that is well written. I read on...

Okay, first stumble: the sentence "As with the condo compound..." the sentence that combines the condo and the mirror and memories and... well, this is partly me, but when a sentence is too long I forget how it began, I lose my thread. I would cut this one down a bit. For me it is a tad over-written. "the long term decay of reflective background coalescing into an image" in particular, now that is a mouthful.

At just over 5'8"" he wasn't tall - well, obviously. Delete "he wasn't tall"?

"R's chin wasn still smooth and unmarked". I know, you just said he was lacking wattle.

Okay, I am beginning to have a 'pacing issue' - it started with the paragraph "When he thought about it". THis has been a very assured read so far, I feel I am in safe hands, there has been alot of heavy paragraphs describing our hero, but they have been wry and well written and they have given me a ton of information on this 'new world'

Now I want a scene, a dramatised scene, some dialogue perhaps, I want him to do something or go somewhere. Instead, I am facing more dense paragraphs of exposition. It's become a little too heavy.

But I read on, and I get a real info dump. I'm still reading, because I love anything post-apolcyptic and I'm interested in bhuddism, and I know this is my thing, but really? Can't you feed in this state of the world info dump through the story? Part of the fun of these tales is finding out what the new world is like, and finding out what happened. For the character, now is now, especially for a bhuddist, this guy is not constantly thinking about the history of the last 20 years, he is shaving and about to begin his day. A little background as you have already done, some detail to allow us to know this is a new world, is good, but not this much. Think Bladerunner - imagine if the film began with a ten minute monologue explaining how the world was and how it got there... we'd be nodding in our seats. You don't need all this. You know it all, which is important, but feed it to us gradually. Think Lord of the Flies - Golding deleted the first two chapters about the nuclear war and the plane full of boys crashing - he deleted the unnecessary facts. Your facts aren't unnecessary, but do they need to be here?

(you might say the same about the stone fables of course - I've considered it, but such background as there is in the beginning has to be there).

ANyway, this is so well written that I am still reading (but I wonder if others will).

And then we are back to the black arts and how he doesn;t look 80 - I know, you've already told us...

As an agent I'm now thinking this needs to be edited. Still at least he has left his bathroom and is moving through a thickly foliaged apartment (and that, the thick foliage, is exactly what we do need to know). As is the morning news with the converging sea level rises and crop productivity - in one sentence you tell us all we need to know. And then, goddamit, you are back to your distopian journalism and telling us about low lying islands and the calamity in new orleans and...

Ok, imagine a novel about a writer/scientist/libararian which opens with him shaving and then pulling his curtains because of his snooping neighbour, ie just like yours, but it is set in 2008. Imagine he shouts at his snooping neighbour and then muses a bit on how young he is looking, and take it as read that you the reader are interested because it is very well written and then... for no good reason.... this hypothetical novel goes into 6 long paragraphs on the credit crisis, and cholera in Zimbabwe and terrorism in Bombay and current environmental concerns and... well, you'd be thinking, come on, I can get that from a newspaper, just get on with the story.

Your novel is set in 2028, which does give you a little leeway, but the same rules apply. This is fiction, not a diatribe about the perils of modernity. Fiction is story, it is character. By all means tell us about terrorism in Bombay and Zimbabwe etc (or your case risiing sea levels) in due course if it is relevant, but your focus must be on the story.

My suggestion, and it is of course only mine, is cut as much as possible from the info dump in chapter one. Tell me about the character, his personal situation, anything really, give us some drama perhaps, a crisis preferably, but try and avoid pages of information on 'the state of the world'.

But I will read on, because you can write...

In the meantime, I hope this helps.

Dave,
Thank you, Thank you - for verbalizing something that's been bothering me. It seems that most of the titles on Authonomy are of the "slam-bam, thank-you Ma'am" variety that dump the character right into non-stop action without building any background or history to the story. I was beginning to think that I was the only reader left who likes to get immersed in a world and then follow the story that's building there. As you note here, in "literary fiction" (which I've tried for, although whether successfully or not is an open question), the reader needs time, and detail to help build that internal world of the story.

Having said that, I take your comment about leaving little to the imagination very seriously. I need to think about that in all my writing. It may be too late for Mai Shangri-La, but I'll try to pare down my followup book even more than I already have

Thanks again for the thoughtful insights.

Rob

(p.s a point of clarification here. I've "replied" here to your comment at my book page, but I'm not sure if this reply appears at your homeopage or just here. If you did get it, shoot me a note. If I don't hear from you, I'll assume it's posted only here and leave it for you at your site as a comment there, I'm still a little confused about the architecture of the author pages/bookshelvs/forums here:))
r

Robert, I did like “The Road” very good post-apocalyptic.

Posted chapter1-5

Reuben James: song by Kenny Roger; also, a boatswain's mate who was a pirate fighter and a USS Battleship named for him.

You definitely leave little to the imagination in your descriptiveness.

This book is a little more Sci-Fi than mine is but I love good Sci-Fi.

I’m not sure why you do all the switching from full name to first and second then first then last and back to first and second, but I’m sure you had your reasons. It did take away my attention a couple times.

Humorous ending to the 1962 segment, the part about the .22 as apposed to bludgeoning them do death, I chuckled.

I’m not sure the feed back you got about 2-5 but I can say now, that you are like I am and a couple others here. Most of the readers that are in fiction and non-fiction don’t understand that Literary fiction is very detailed and takes longer to build. We want everyone to have an intimacy with our characters, before we slam them with a ton of action and they are lost without the true knowledge of the main characters until somewhere in the middle of the book.

I think you are an exceptional writer. It may be hard as it is for me to get readers to want to pass the first chapter they want a lot of fluff and sex and action, this is where our type of book will suffer in the ratings. However, one thing for sure, if anybody reads them they will know our characters very well. Good luck on your endeavors.

I am shelving it. for a few days.

Dave

Lexi,
Thanks much for the insightful critique - which is spot on, by the way. I really do think I've got an interesting story to tell here, but I'm beginning to realize (I'm a slow learner...:()) that I probably need to pretty much DUMP my four first chapters. although I have know intellectually for some time that this is the only way to salvage MSL, it's hard to "kill your darlings" as Papa would say....

Maybe I can pare down the four to a single opening chapter, and then ration out a bit of the backstory (some of which is obvious as the story unfolds, and doesn't need to be told at all!) through the remaining chapters.

Thanks again. I think I'll pull chapter 4 immediately, with an eye to simply excising it from the MS. I THINK that once Reuben meets Timbo, the story carries itself...

Rob

This starts with a bang – no, a thung, as I shared Reuben’s satisfaction in downing the camera drone. He had my interest and sympathy directly, though it waned a little halfway through the chapter (round about the flaring nostrils) as you continued to tell me stuff. I wanted to see Reuben in action, or him to meet someone else and have some dialogue. Hang on, you’re telling me again about his anti-age therapies. Huh.

From then on, you’d lost me, and it’s not because the scenario is without interest; it’s the way you tell it. Of the first two chapters, one and a half chapters is all information which should be BACKGROUND information. I wanted to find out Reuben’s story, what was going to happen to him, how he was going to deal with his world, and you didn’t tell me. Maybe it starts later on…but that’s too late for modern readers.

Your pitch is inviting; there’s a lot of potential here, loads of good bits, but… I recommend Holly Lisle’s website: http://hollylisle.com/, which I found very useful.

[Watch out for too many adjectives making reading hard going, e.g. ‘the idiosyncratic circular beach elevator tower’. ‘As with the condo compound’ – this sentence is, I think too long and convoluted for its own good. ‘Tuned automatically…’ is another. Often simplicity is best.]

This starts with a bang – no, a thung, as I shared Reuben’s satisfaction in downing the camera drone. He had my interest and sympathy directly, though it waned a little halfway through the chapter (round about the flaring nostrils) as you continued to tell me stuff. I wanted to see Reuben in action, or him to meet someone else and have some dialogue. Hang on, you’re telling me again about his anti-age therapies. Huh.

From then on, you’d lost me, and it’s not because the scenario is without interest; it’s the way you tell it. Of the first two chapters, one and a half chapters is all information which should be BACKGROUND information. I wanted to find out Reuben’s story, what was going to happen to him, how he was going to deal with his world, and you didn’t tell me. Maybe it starts later on…but that’s too late for modern readers.

Your pitch is inviting; there’s a lot of potential here, loads of good bits, but… I recommend Holly Lisle’s website: http://hollylisle.com/, which I found very useful.

[Watch out for too many adjectives making reading hard going, e.g. ‘the idiosyncratic circular beach elevator tower’. ‘As with the condo compound’ – this sentence is, I think too long and convoluted for its own good. ‘Tuned automatically…’ is another. Often simplicity is best.]

Gillian,
Finished chapters 1-5. Loved it! If this doesn't get published, there is no justice!! have Backed it, and hope it goes to the top this week! Best of luck!!!
Rob
(I'm still not sure if I'm posting this in the right place. Need to work on navigating through the site)
r

QUOTE] Robert. We spoke earlier in the week and agreed to trade reads.

I've just read your opening chapter and I found it thought provoking and gripping. It is the kind of book I would buy without doubt. I've added you to my shelf, hope to come back and read more next month when things are calmer.

I think your concern about the info dump is valid. If you feel all the info is necessary early on, why not consider a prologue?

If you were to have chance to read The Charter today (need month end votes) it would be much appreciated.

Good look with your writing! Well done.

Robert. We spoke earlier in the week and agreed to trade reads.

I've just read your opening chapter and I found it thought provoking and gripping. It is the kind of book I would buy without doubt. I've added you to my shelf, hope to come back and read more next month when things are calmer.

I think your concern about the info dump is valid. If you feel all the info is necessary early on, why not consider a prologue?

If you were to have chance to read The Charter today (need month end votes) it would be much appreciated.

Good look with your writing! Well done.

What? No comments? I'm the first?

OK, your beginning has an interesting juxtaposition of modern life and non-electronic technology that makes me wonder - in a good way, I guess. I'm a bit iffy on why spying with camera bots requires the drastic action of shooting a crossbow. As far as I understand, crossbows are pretty lethal. Like shooting a gun, one doesn't 'just' fire a crossbow at something that's mildly annoying. To me, it feels like an overreaction, slightly comical, western-ish.

My main comment, though, is that I feel you need to lighten your narrative prose. It is very heavy on adjectives, and this slows down the reading, and it also has a strong tell-y feel. I'd trim the prose off all adjectives and re-insert only those you absolutely need. A guideline: about two in ten as you've used them here.

You also don't need to infodumpthe entire current world situation in chapter one. Readers are quite happy finding out things in dribs and drabs, as long as the story is interesting. Don't stop the story for long stretches to explain.