DROPPING BABIES

First impressions as I read the first 4 chapters:
• Interesting and arresting opening imagery, the dead girl watching her own burial. Slight confusion as we read that ‘her thoughts’ were elsewhere, but the next thing we read is that she ‘watched the soil trickling down’. Then she ‘hears’ the banging noise tapering away. So we ask, is she still in her body, which is working in some way, or is it only her thoughts that we’re going to be privy to?
• I became aware of a constant internal rhyme as I read, and narrowed it down to the repeated use of ‘away’:
o ‘pulling away’
o ‘taper away’
o ‘drained away’
o ‘drain away’
... all in the first two paragraphs.

• ‘Since she’d started to live again ... ‘ – it’s unclear what this is referring to. The previous paragraph has described her standing in front of her mirror, when evidently she’s alive. Now this next paragraph talks about her living again ... is that referring to her coming to life having been murdered? A bit of thought on the reader’s part makes it kinda clear that it is ... but we shouldn’t be having to think so much. It’s a bit confusing – the timeline is moving back and forth and we’re not sure where the ‘centre’ is. Omit the first two sentences from the para and it reads fine.
• Don’t need capitals for Father and Moon.
• After the gap, we have ‘the man’ when she’d described him as a boy. If the plot can manage it (i.e. it doesn’t matter that we know his name now), then it might be better to use his name because after the break, it helps us identify with him – throws us into his consciousness because Mavis didn’t know his name. That helps these kinds of transitions – name the person whose consciousness we’re ‘in’ as soon as possible after a break: it helps the reader orient themselves.
• Chapter two beginning scene: marginally confusing, but not too bad. Reminds me of James Ellroy in that the characters have a conversation into which the reader only has a slight insight. We get a sense of Stellan but I’d like just a fraction more of why he finds the language of interest – given your background, I guess he’s going to be Swedish. Could we not have a hint of that here so we ‘get’ him, a little?
• Chapter two, second scene: fine ... though I can’t get my head around ‘Mike’ being the name of a hard case/bad guy. Maybe Micky or the full Michael?

• Chapter 3 – second scene: we don’t realise at first that Grapes is the boy from the first chapter. Could either call him Grapes in that first scene, or describe him in this one brushing soil from his trousers or something. Of course we get it in the end, but it feels like a secret’s been kept from us that doesn’t actually need to be.

• Chapter 3, last scene: layout of Mike’s inner dialogue makes it hard to know what’s going on. Had to read it twice. Maybe something like this:

There was some twist in his face that held Proctor’s attention.
Back to your mud huts. (Italicised)
Proctor had read the DJ’s lips and turned to see if anyone else had seen it too. Si looked his way and nodded, Evo too.
Well, that made things easier [italics], thought Proctor. [Italics again:] Not tonight. Leave it a week, then he gets a visit.
[I don’t really get the last bit after this ... suddenly Mike is talking out loud? Or is his mimicking of a Countdown host still in his thoughts? And are the ‘two from the bottom row’ supposed to be the DJ’s teeth?]
• Chapter 4 – seems odd because we have no context for it. It’s OK of course to have a foreshadowing chapter which we don’t completely understand, but this reads like a Prologue (of the type Crais often uses in his Pike books). If it’s this far into the book it would be good to see how it relates to one of the characters that we’ve already met. If it’s a new character, then give us some context. It’s perhaps a little short to give us enough information to enable us to ‘go with it’ until we learn more.
• Chapter 5 – give the old man a name. You take us inside his head when in fact I think we need to see him from the outside – naming him will help this. I think fewer italicised inner thoughts would help, too, as we need to see the immediate world around him, not be a prisoner of his thoughts. I lost the point completely that he’d seen the girl’s fingers and pulled them ... I was as wrapped up in his thoughts as he was! The thoughts actually take us away from the here and now when we need to be seeing the immediate world through his eyes, and see the exact moment when there’s something different in it.

I've been very picky here because I think the ideas warrant such attention! It's a very interesting milieu and range of characters and your oblique approach is very contemporary. Your dialogue I think is very good, though sometimes needs a bit more context to be made sense of. I also think that you could cut down fractionally on the descriptive phrases ... though of course these help set the milieu to begin with. It's a fine balance! Some people like more description, others less. I think you can ignore those who say they got lost as far as the plot is concerned - the modern idiom of crime writing is to be oblique and to present a range of scenes and characters who gradually come together in the book, which is what you're doing here. I think it should work out really well for you.
As a point of interest (and not as self-promotion!) my second book The Private Lie was also partly set in Liverpool and the Wirral, amongst gangsters! If you have a Kindle or the Kindle software you can get it from the Kindle store very cheaply, or from Lulu.com as a paperback.
I should add that I gave your book 5 stars and added to my watchlist.

John,

This is a BHCG review. I liked your book after reading the first 8 chapters. I think that was a good start that had me entertained.

Plot – love the beginning chapter. I wanted to read more. It is gritty, but I like that in a book.

Pacing – Pace was good. Chapter four threw me off, but it was a short chapter and did not distract me too much from chapter 5.

Characters/Characterization – Like the Characters. I think you did the best job with Joyce and Mavis. I did not get a great visual on Stellan or Lisa.

Point of View/Voice - Point of view and voice was good. You used passive voice in the first chapter, but if you used it later on, I did not think it was noticeable. Example: “the shovel was thrown away and he got down to his knees… (try:He threw the shovel down and got down on his knees.)

Style - Gritty. I liked the detail you used. It pulled me in. I liked the moving around from Character to Character. I think you will create a rhythm for the reader over time if you continue to switch between characters in different chapters.

Sentence level - 1.
You had several long sentences that could be shortened up to improve flow. An example was the second sentence of chapter 1.
Chapter one and two need a good grammatical scrub by a professional. I felt distracted and had to reread sentences because they were so complex.

Dialogue - fine.

Originality - Seems like a murder mystery so far. That is not my genre so I would not wish to rate originality.

Publishability - After eight chapters I think this is definitely publishable.

cheers,

John (boricsmith)

I like the way this goes straight into the action. Guaranteed to be an attention grabber. Looking through some of the other reviews I agree with a few of them especially Keithyd. There are a lot of characters to deal with in the first two chapters. If I find that I am having to make a list of characters to keep track of who is who in my mind it's not a good sign. Maybe cut them back unless absolutely essential to the story (for example the man carrying the drinks at the party) The main characters are strong enough to hold the readers interest especially Proctor. Sometimes the narrative jumps from one thing to another making it a bit disjointed. With careful editing this is no big deal. It is a brilliant story and generally your style of writing is strong. I wish you all the best with this.

Kim (Pain)

The first few chapters are exilerating and strong. The first chapter in particular really drew me into the story.

The remorse and guilt of the man burying the woman is clearly evident and much more interesting and chilling than if he had simply approached it coldly without guilt. I enjoyed being in Grapes head and I feel his actions become even more impactful because you allow the reader to relate to the person committing this horrific act rather than distancing the reader from him.

You are clearly a talented writer and I enjoyed this very much.

Good Luck,

Roy Earle, "Bad Men and Bad Odds"

I really liked this when i read it som months ago, but had a few problems with it as you know. So i'm realy glad to seeyou've ironed out those issues.
The early chapters are much punchier than they were, and the stroy moves alongmore quickl, which is appropriate for this typeof crime fiction.
I saw someone mention James Ellroy (the fucking Daddy of crime fiction as far as i'm concerned) in another comment, i would personally compare it more to the Likes of Ian Rankin, in that its a bit more mainstream than Ellroy, but still has a genuine edge to it, and genuine darkness.
As it is now, i'd say it's very adult, potentially qutie commercial crime writing that should do well on here, nd hopefull with publishers and agents, who you should be startng to think about submiting to soon. Six stars.

Hi there John,

returning a read after your great comment the other day.

This is very well written with a great, menacing villain and some very original use of language. The opening does just what you wanted it to and grabs our attention from the very first. You establish the grimy underworld setting very well but three chapters in I've yet to discover the lighter/everyman characters that will give the reader someone to identify with - is this going to be Stellan? It was hard to tell from what I've seen so far.

You have some fantastic imagery and metaphors but my biggest reservation was simply that at times the language gets too much in the way of the story or is so dense that it is hard to concentrate on what you are trying to put across. Your dialogue is excellent and a little bit more would go a long way to helping keep the flow of the narrative progressing whilst you indulge in the very well done literary pyrotechnics.

here are my close comments on the first three chapters

CH 1

Half-dead and her thoughts elsewhere, Mavis was thrown into a hole.
thought he could make out the sway of the Sea
-do you mean the movement of the sea, not very clear, and wouldn’t the noun be the swaying of the sea? Or maybe not...

‘Sorry,’ Grapes whispered.
-why reveal the name at this point, it makes it seem very significant as if it is a twist or something. Why not tell us it before or leave it until we need to know his name later on.

From where he sat Michael Proctor could see the whole of the back room: the dance floor with plenty of space left, the bar with none and doorway into the main lounge-and the rabble out there-as well as the entrance from the car park with Si’s domed shadow through the glass.
-some of your sentences are just too long and complicated. I don’t think of myself as particularly thick but it takes a lot of attention and rereading to make sense of this.

Ch2
with Auntie Bella. The Birthday Girl who hadn’t thanked him for the present yet.
-as it’s laid out now, it should be one sentence not two

Everyday
- should be every day, everyday means normal/typical as in ... your everyday clothes

his scalp felt pinched and twisted like the skin of a balloon.
-very nice image

Ch3
WHERE the silence seemed complete ??

I think you need to provide some sort of device to warn us you are jumping between locations/characters/periods - asterix or something like that.

...

I really am intrigued by your plot and the character of Proctor especially. This is one of the most intelligently written pieces I've read on here, just be careful to put the needs of your readers on a footing with your creative instinct. I'll keep you on my watchlist and hopefully read some more soon.

Best of luck,

Benedict

John, you are clearly a gifted writer, but I found it difficult to engage with this, the style being slightly too 'literary' for my taste. For fans of this genre however, it seems you are onto a winner.
David

Dropping Babies
BHCG Review/Return read
After I wrote my below review, I read other comments. I have to say I agree with all of them in that this is very accomplished writing. The list in my head of writing that makes me envious just got a bit longer. But this is the brutal honesty crit group, so I’m going to be honest. I lost interest. I don’t know why, really, so I’ve spent almost an hour here trying to pinpoint it (and re-reading it!). I think it was the fact that chapter 1 was SO gripping. And then Ch 2 they’re at a wedding, I don’t know who anyone is, there seems to be no relation. And then halfway through, Stallen is in a taxi, I don’t know who Stallen and Lisa are. I persevered onto Chapter 3 and things got a bit better… You spent some time with Lisa and Stallen and I’m getting the idea that they’re not so nice characters.
Listen, it is altogether possible that it’s me. The following is always IMHO but for me, you’re switching characters too fast for me to care about them. I just couldn’t stay into it. I sincerely tried but the fact that I was trying so hard is something you should know about, I think. The writing is superb – far above most of what is on this site, my own included. The visuals, the descriptions, imagery – check, check, check. You’ve got it – really wonderful phrasing, fresh and original. It all made perfect sense to me, which is a struggle when writing original imagery – will it make sense to others? Yes, I could instantly SEE everything you are saying. This is un-teachable, I think, at your level – you are clearly gifted.
Ch1:
Struggled a bit with the opening sentence. Half-dead and thoughts elsewhere? To me, if you’re half dead you either aren’t thinking at all (unconscious) or your thoughts are incapable of being “elsewhere”… STAY ALIVE. These are your thoughts!
Head swung back (COMMA)
What a spectacular first chapter!
Ch2:
Arse-cheek tennis had me LOL-ing
Ch3: Read, no comments
Plot – First chapter was fantastic. Ch 2 lost me a bit
Pacing – I think perhaps it’s too quick, while the imagery is too slow. What I’m trying to (very inelegantly) say is: The scenes are switching too fast – not enough time to get invested in the characters, but the makes it hard to continue, as not much is actually “happening”. No idea if this makes sense.
Characters/Characterization - So far, I don’t feel as though I have gotten to know anyone. This is my hurdle, I’m not connected to anyone yet.
Point of View/Voice /Style: Didn’t work for me, too quick character switching, kept losing interest.
Sentence level – as far as I can tell, flawless.
Dialogue – Very nicely done, here. The dialogue is natural and colloquial, but not in a distracting way.
Originality/publishable – I think opening a book with a woman being thrown down a hole is original for sure. Your premise combined with your clear ability to feckin write makes you original and in my eyes, publishable.

Kate M.

John, give poor Mavis a dragon tattoo... something other than a dragon, in actuality... and you're almost up there with the late Swedish master. This is certainly like no other British or even American thriller that I know of, with a language and complexity all its own.

I'm fearing the worst as far as just who Grapes is. Perhaps that'll come out in the wash, but you've given us some huge herrings with the opening. I think, perhaps, it strays a little into the fanciful in that opening narrative. I had to read a few paras more than once to try and grasp the meaning. Then... you hit us with some truly outstanding lines. e.g. *And all the time she couldn't escape from the screaming. She didn't realise it was her own*. Incredible imagery.

So we meet Proctor... and the family. A rather different voice. Sometimes crude, maybe too much so, but the menace is palpable. I fear for the hapless DJ... Stellan and Lisa - not sure yet who these two are, but can see they're pretty important people, but hedonistic, as it were, and in the rich netherlands of *The Hundreds*, with a body a bit too close to home.

It's a page-turner, John, with a pretty unique style. Therefore, high stars from me, and it's in line for a turn on my shelf.

Kay
(*The Ragged Yellow Ribbon*)

Fabulous writing with a constant compelling crackle of verve and vitality to it. It's both menacing and tender, cynical and wide eyed. Especially loved the devil in my wheelchair chapter. Great. I loved this.

Hi John,
returning your read of 'Mr Unusually's Circus of Dreams', many thanks for that!

I loved this. It's beautifully written with some wonderful turns of phrase. I loved the dialogue too esp the Grease moves to Morrissey line - brilliant stuff.
I'm not really a big crime fan, but I have read some Larsson and a few others like 'Miss Smilla's feeling for snow' and 'Snow falling on Cedars'. Slightly more literary crime, if there's such a thing, so this definitely tickles my fancy.
I like your short pitch, but remove the first line of the long pitch, it's too much like publisher-speak and might put a speculative reader off. Better to tease in the pitches, not summarise.
My only other gripe is why are you here??? Send it off to an agent now - stopping fannying around!! Surely you'd get it published in the blink of an eye, this stuff sells like hot cakes, because it not only appeals to the hard-bitten crime fans but to me and my ilk who fancy they have better taste and probably belong to a book club or two. Get yourself a copy of The Writers and Artists Yearbook and start sending it off to all and sundry. Most agents only want the first 3-5 chps anyway and these look in pretty good shape. Begone with you lad!!
In the meantime, I will six star it and keep it watchlisted for when I have space.
All the best,
Sharda.

There's so much menace in this that it is the atmosphere which initially hooks. I've enjoyed this and backed it. However, I don't think the very first line is good enough yet. Otherwise, the first and all subsequent chapters are excellent with lots of originality, action and character building.

I thought your choice of names, George and Joyce made for unnecessary confusion in the long read. Why the capital P for 'the Porter'.

I am sure this book will go places even though there's sign of rush in later chapters.

Backed
Lara
A RELATIVE LOSS

You've been a bit lazy with commas And with apostrophes, so there's lots to edit. In 19 you have,'what was her name her.'

I have been away for a while and as I have given this story only a once over, I can only comment as such.
No doubt you have the ability to entertain, very good writing for the dark side but I was slightly confused at the start. That's not necessarily the writer's fault, as a married man I'm wrong on numerous occasions. Anyway I thought it went back and forth to the point of confusion - unless of course there is something I've missed. Just as easy to start in the garage with the cricket bat then move to the grave scene. I do however like the contrast between weird and ordinary (yes I'm referring to the Wirral as ordinary) The change from dark to light is excellent especially the image of Ma proctor moving like a demolition ball.

I seemed sure the location was on the Wirral but then it mentions cliffs and then a breeze and then dead leaves and now I'm not too sure.

Overall, I thought it was highly entertaining an I do like your style, it had me rivetted. In fact it's 1 am now and I'm in work at 8am - that's how good I found it. One point I'd like to make. You don't need to write 'The banging noise in her ears began to fade.' Just say, 'The banging began to fade,' It's almost onomatopoeia, better if you can find another word for fade.

I really enjoyed it and will read some more when I get the chance. If I have missed the beginning, please let me know. There are some talented writers on here who do write below the surface.

Hi John,
As I said, crime not my genre but I am giving shelf space for a while as the writing is accomplished. The first chapter is almost too dense. It's like receiving one punch after another till you end up numb. I'd rather be sent reeling once when I'm not expecting it. But that's just me. I imagine crime readers will love this.
Ana

It certainly is an "uncompromising" narrative! Very gritty and dark. It's hard to read and hard to stop reading, because the violence and menace are so immediate and so vividly described. I am struggling to figure out who these people are and why these things are happening, but the images and sensations are very sharp and fresh. This is very acomplished writing. I'll brace myself and read more. Outstanding.

I read through the first three chapters and I love it. Chapter one is written beautifully. Heart pounding action the whole way. After that, chapter two is a nice break into the regular world. Fantastic pacing, amazing imagery and a smooth natural dialogue. A great package from top to bottom. This is a great one. High stars for sure.

The opening chapters are some of the best I have read on this site. Grim and full of menace.
No question that we are being entertained by a master storyteller.

All the characters are realistic and the dialogue rings all the right bells, particularly the pollce and pathologist.

Looking forward to continuing with this when I get a bit more time. Meanwhile best of luck with it and full stars.

Shelved of course.

I have no doubt that it will make it all the way to the editor's desk.

Best of luck. Eric

I read the first four chapters, quite hard to follow which actually makes it all the more interesting. A sort of English James Ellroy. I'm not qualified to comment other than to say that it's really good, I like it enough to want to read the finished article. Well done, backed and rated. James Dalton.

Love this first chapter!! It reminds me so much of Neil Jordan's "Shade", which is written from the point of view of a young girl who was murdered by a childhod friend. Beautiful and lyrical.. a quintessential "Irish" style which I love. :)

The fear and regret of the man burying her is evident. I want to know who he is, who SHE is. What are these tapes they wanted? And who, indeed, are "they".

Excellent start and I will read on.

A riverting opening chapter. I dipped into several more chapters, and found each one well written, though obviously I cannot comment on the plot after such a brief skim. Well done, to be backed. Marj.

Dear John

Never judge a book by its cover, they say, though buyers do, of course! When I saw this - silly me - I thought of some intelligent change of life drama. Mum and three kids and boyfriend who likes to go on a bender....a bit of a laugh.

Not so. This is a visceral writing. Very strong and tense. Well observed, imaginative and introverted. What a keg of characters too - all vivid, down to earth with a bump. Sharp as nails and uncomfortable. I like thriller writing, and I used to read quite a bit of the middle brow stuff - Kathy Reichs, Elizabeth George. This is a good deal stronger, though.

And the writing moves at a fair pace. Your narrative is polished and clever, full of gritty realism....yet, I do think there is space for a little more reflection, at times. Sometimes I can't keep up. Do you want me to, or is this just not my sort of read? I'm unsure...

You are a gifted writer, so I wish you well.

All the best

Fran Macilvey, "Trapped" :-))

This is class. I knew I was in good hands from the opening line, the moment the body drops in the hole, eyes still open and watching. The clear points of view, the friction between characters, the edgy dialogue. It’s got the lot. I just have to keep reading on. For example, the way Joyce sees the tattoo in chapter 6 is a classic piece of writing.

this is very accomplished writing. The opening chapter is dark and horrific and Proctor's implied menace truly chilling. There are lot of characters to take in at once, but I didn't get too lost and the pace is real strength. Not sure, as a reader, who I am supposed to be rooting for (5 chapters in) - as none of the characters so far, seem particular pleasant. This is possibly something to bear in mind, which character will the reader identify/ empathise with and consequently keep reading for? Happy to give this some shelf time. Good luck and sorry my comments not more probing, but this is a genre I am not hugely familiar with. Juliet

I've rather let the Scandinavian thriller genre pass me by so I'm not in a position to judge this against it. I would say that you appear to be in control of a complicated plot and can pace it well. It's not an easy read, either in terms of structure or subject matter but I'm enjoying the feeding of information and I think I am confused in the early stages because you intend me to be so. I like that. I want to find my brain engaged and to make connections for myself rather than being spoonfed. The greatest compliment a writer can pay a reader is to trust her. The italicised thread running through the whole is intriguing and potentially very nasty - presumably that is the meat of the story (it is 'Dropping Babies' after all) and where all the other threads will eventually tie up. Rereading the first chapter having read the whole I think I see a couple of things I didn't think to look for on first reading. All to the good. I know the Wirral fairly well so the places are familiar and I liked your precise recreation of geography and setting. It's a similar feeling to the one I get when reading Ian Rankin's books - because the places are right I can trust the author on other things. Details matter.

I read the book fast for plot rather than style, although I liked the style very much. If I hadn't I'd have stopped reading. I enjoyed the pov changes. One minor problem I had in the early stages was simply keeping at the front of my mind that 'Joyce' is a man and 'George' a woman. I know this sounds silly! I'm fine with the use of surnames but because each is also a first name for the other sex I did wonder if the gender confusion was deliberate and if so why? I don't care to pick details of word choice but I will say I found the the occasional arcana compelling. As others have noted, there's an interesting use of language although I didn't quite feel the full force of Scouse. You do need to check your ms for punctuation and for typos. This is trivial and mostly didn't interfere with my reading but occasionally a sentence would trip me up; a couple of examples: ch 23,'Sheila isn't it? I was in her yesterday with Sugar Ray.' I think it should be 'in here'. And in ch24, 'They released him, he picked up the child holding her up by the ear that wasn't bleeding and rocked her.' This, I had to read a couple of times before it clicked that he wasn't in fact holding the child up by her ear. Anyway, a very good read. High stars from me. Good luck, Harriet

I have to say, after reading the first two chapters, I would buy this book.
A compelling and edgy style of writing, I was hooked by the end of the first scene where poor Mavis is so brutally aware of her own burial.
A strong sense of scene and creepy imagery make a great opening to the story and I was immediately drawn into her world.
This is one to watch. I've backed Dropping Babies and wish you luck with it.

"Half-man, half-mattress." Superb. I'm hooked. The mysterious Grapes. Good use of italics. You've really got something here. Six stars. I'll change my desk soon and back this.

I have now read up to the end of chapter 6. I am finding it hard to work out who everyone is but that's probably the reader's fault and all will be revealed as we go on.
Chapter 2
The sentence 'From where he sat Michael Proctor could see the whole of the back room: the dance floor with plenty of space, the bar with none and doorway into the main lounge - and the rabble out there - as well as the entrance from the car park with Si's domed shadow through the glass' is far too long and convoluted for me. I would break it down a little but have no idea how in its present form!
I like 'the seconds seemed to wait in line with lowered heads'
When Proctor says 'She's fucking sixty not sixteen would Evo knw who he's talking about without some preamble?

I loved all the description from 'A silver dot..... (to)....defining the darkness. Terrific writing.
I liked 'she could almost taste her contentment.'

Chapter 3

I would place 'as thier key grated in the lock' at the start of the sentence not at the end 'As their key grated in the lock, she was impatient to get in and away from the whispering breezes.'

'The door of the lounge opened..' In spite of the gap between the paragraphs I thought we were still in their house. Were the first scenes in a pub? If so you could write 'lounge bar.' Otherwise maybe 'the door of Porctor's lounge'. Not sure!!

Chapter 4
Intriguing!

Chapter 5
Great discovery of the body.

Chapter 6
Exciting. A bit confused by the phone conversaton at the very end.

I don't know what this book is doing on Authonomy. It's head and shoulders above most on here. Are you chasing publication with agents and publishers because I feel that's what you should be doing.
Thanks for a very interesting and enjoyable read so far.

Just started reading and will do so in fits and starts, unfortunately. I have rarely found a more arresting and exciting first chapter to any book. I would snatch this up in a bookshop after only reading that chapter. Well written, fast paced and with beautiful imagery albeit of gory detail. The moonlight on her fingernails blew me away. I'll be back!

'arse cheek tennis'. Very good, John. On my WL and rated. I'll be back with a longer comment.

Opening chapter is strong and compelling. I read on, seven chapters in all, to get a better feel for the story which is unfolding in a deliciously edgy and fragmented way... and yet despite this playing with time and reveal, I got a strong sense of the characters involved - you do dialogue well, the characters are all richly conveyed, and the links between them, and the events playing out, all begins to mesh nicely by chapter seven.

It's good. I'd read on if I had time. There are a few places where the playing with time/detail reveal/head-hopping confuses a little, but I suspect that's down to reading on screen (which I always find a chore) as this style and genre needs to be delivered in that way - for pace, for intrigue etc etc. - and overall I think it's working really nicely here.

On my shelf for a spin!

Dropping Babies. Got to you at last. That's a gripping, well structured pitch, as well as an eye-catching title, though having read to Chapter 7, I dont yet see the connection to the story.

Ch.1. An astounding beginning, depicting a dying woman. 'She emptied herself out into the earth.' And beautifully written, if you can call it such, for a macabre scene.
Then I am getting lost - a few hours earlier, Mavis stands before her bedroom mirror; then suddenly she's tied to a chair in a garage, and a man empties petrol over her.
Then we're back at the hole, and we're in the man's viewpoint - Grapes.
I feel I havent had time to adjust myself to what's happening. It's all so sudden. Perhaps more of a fill-out of the back story would be appropriate?
But maybe, like me, you have chopped your real chapters into smaller pieces for the benefit of authonomy readers.
I am compelled on.

Ch.2. Are the numbers at the chapter headings times? At first I thought they might be dates in the future.
You jump from scene to scene - again, before the reader has time to assimilate the first one.

Ch.3. I've found a nit - think you mean she looked beyond to the wood where the silence seemed complete with ambience.
But I still think you could chop and change the scenes less frequently. This is a book. It seems more like a series of video clips (your writing is every bit as dramatic and vivid as any video clip).

Ch.4. Intriguing thoughts - are they in a residential home?

Ch.5. You tantalise me: a lovely scene with the bird-watcher - until he finds ... is it Mavis?
Oh - ho, things are beginning to come together now. (but what I've said above still stands).
I just have to read one more chapter.

Ch.6. My, we've lived through less than day - and that's a tremendous hook you have at the end of this chapter.

Ch.7. You need to check the spellings / meanings of their and there. I think you've got it wrong a couple of times - like in the paragraph about the Light Green Fingers.
Didnt he smash the tiles with his heavy turf cutter?

I am full of admiration. Your writing is superb. What are you doing on this site?
I look forward to seeing what you think of my book.

Jane
(Breath of Africa)

Hi

I've read 3 chapters. This is a great story. I did get confused when we were with her as the soil fell onto her face, etc and then she thinks back to the past happenings. I think you need a sign post to tell the reader are we in present tense or past tense. E.g. She remembered..... then at the end of the memory...Now she watched him pour petrol.....

Otherwise all okay.
All the best with this.

Backed.
Olga

John,

I have read the first five chapters of "Dropping Babies". First, I ought to say that crime fiction isn't a genre that I generally read (other than Raymond Chandler and an occasional Ian Rankin, both of which I read for their style rather than the mystery) so I am probably not best qualified to give a definitive critique of your novel. Please take that into account when reading my comments.

To me, the short scenes seemed more "cinematic" than "literary", almost as though this is a novelisation of the TV or film screenplay. (Have you thought of writing this story as a screenplay?) I know that you are trying to create an atmosphere of mystery, but I found it hard to follow what was going on. You have at least five different viewpoint characters (Mavis, Grapes, Proctor, Stellan, and the birdwatcher in Ch. 5) and even by the end of chapter five I have no idea what any of them look like, which makes it hard for me to visualise what's going on. It doesn't need pages of description, just a passing mention of something that hints at a characters' age (I'm guessing that Grapes is younger than Proctor; no idea about Stellan). Or you could mention hair colour or whether or not they wear glasses: something simple like that.

Also, I think you need to pare down some of the existing description, to keep the pace going, otherwise readers are going to be tempted to skip ahead. One good use of description is in the pub at the beginning of Ch2, which is straightforward, unobtrusive and informative - one of the best sections of the novel, IMO. Just the line "Cigarette smoke dulled the gleam of the disco lights..." tells us so much about the pub and the period in which the story is set (before the smoking ban, presumably). On the other hand "minute sculptures of sand and decaying matter, falling like ash like a forgotten cigarette" (Ch1) is just a little too poetic, and draws undue attention to itself. (Also, I don't think that is the sort of thing that Mavis would be thinking, under the circumstances, but I may be wrong.)

I hope that my comments don't come over as too negative. These were just the thoughts of one reader, one Sunday morning in March. Someone else might have totally different ideas.

best wishes and good writing
John Bayliss

Wow, this is a great dramatic intro. Telling it from the POV of the dying woman is very effective. Switching over to Grapes' POV works too, to tell us a little of the actual backstory. "Left" and "leave" so close together in the second paragraph sounded odd to me, and I wondered about "letting her face the stars." The writing in general is very clean and polished. This definitely makes us want to know what's going on, a nice hook. I'm sure you will rise quickly in the ranks! High stars! ~Gail SECRETS WE KEEP

John,

I've just read your opening chapter. First off, you've got a great title - 'Dropping Babies' - and a real eye-catching pitch. And this is a very atmospheric, intense start to a novel - a woman being buried alive - one that is sure to grab the attention of any prospective reader/agent/publisher. There's some great images here, frozen nasal hairs turning ot spikes, ash from forgotten cigarettes, but like the comment below, I wasn't too sure about the 'her thoughts elsewhere' in opening line. It doesn't read too well, or feel consistent with what follows. Knowing how notoriously difficult opening lines can be, maybe 'Bouncing off the frozen ground, Mavis' head turned...' might be a better alternative. Not sure.

I like the way you shift POV here, seeing the scene through the man, Grapes' eyes towards the end of the chaper. This provides a nice contrast, and another layer of intrigue, a reason for reading on, to find out how all the little clues and signposts you've so cleverly dropped in these opening pages fits together.

All in all, very nicely done, and I'd have definitely read on had I more time.

Happy to give you a run on my shelf

Regards

NA 'The Butterfly and the Wheel'

Hi John, Your synopsis grabbed me. Reading, I found the section on Mavis' horrible death strong in detail and her POV yet some sentences were confusing, perhaps because they drive ahead in the story or make reference to people that haven't appeared yet. Such as this sentence in the first paragraph: "For a moment.... " I couldn't immediately comprehend "Father's fingers" or understand why Father's was capitalized.
After that, the writing was much more clear to follow and it gave good setting detail. Strong portrayal of these characters and economy with their thoughts. The section with Proctor in the bar intrigued with his mother there and his cover up with his pet management. You've got some engrossing characters here. Shelved - Katherine

Hejsan Svejsan!
Damned good polished writing.
No real crits on the opening. It rocks.
Tight as a crabs arse.
Realy like it -gruesome - interesting and missing all the flowery nonsense you see in e.g.P DJames.
Baced with no hesitation as soon asteones on my shelf have been up long enough.

Here is my review for the purposes of our new thread.
Crime/Thriller and sub genre review group
Title: Dropping Babies
Author:
Chapters 1,2 and 3
Wow Factor (Read Speed/Enjoyment)
[8] Speed (Easy/Fast)
[8] Enjoyment
[8] Interest (very good scenes)

Literacy (Editing/Proofing/Structure)
[9] Free of (obvious) Spelling Errors (easy fix)
[9] Free of (obvious) Contextual Grammar Errors
[07] Free of Distracting Dialog

Story
[8] Coherent / Order
(8) Character/Subject Development

Marketing
[4] Cover Design
[07] Pitch
(TOTAL
[76/100]

Comments: John, am back for a second visit for the purposes of our new thread. This phrase, in particular stood out: ‘she watched as the soil trickled down, minute sculptures of soil and decayed matter, falling like ash from a forgotten cigarette.’

I think the rewrite of the long pitch is more compelling, and I hope, will attract more readers. Once you have a cover that will help too and that was the only reason I didn’t score you higher . The Autho ranking doesn’t reflect the quality of the writing. I do hope that you are starting to send this out to agents. When I do my next reshuffle at the end of the month, this is going on the shelf.

Alison (Lambert Nagle)
Revolution Earth

Hi John,
I sent you a BHCG review for 'Dropping Babies' some time ago. Any chance of a return read?

Chris.

I read your first four chapters.

General comments: A gripping start. Excellent use of deep point of view to add dimension to your characters. Evocative narrative. Superb similies. Vivid imagery. Strong sense of place. Well-managed tension. Crisp pacing.

Specific comments on the first chapter:
1) Excellent opening line. I'm hooked.
2) Hyphenate 'slate tiled.'
3) ' ... waiting for the burn to reach her Father's fingers.' 'Father's' should be lowercase. When a kinship term is modified (usually with a possessive pronoun) it becomes a common noun and is lowercase,
4) ' ... feeling the sweat begin to chill over his body.' Try to avoid using the verb 'feeling.' Just describe his chill so realistically the reader will experience it along with him. When you do this, you'll pull the reader deeper into your scene.

Specific comments on the second chapter:
1) 'She was your Dad's favourite but she always got on my nerves.' 'Dad's' should be lowercase. When a kinship term is modified it becomes a common noun and is lowercase.
2) 'Like those that had made an effort and put a collar on-' 'That' should be 'who.'
3) 'Cheers Mickey.' Comma after 'cheers.' When you address someone in dialogue, offset their name or title with a comma. There are more cases of this type of problem.
4) 'Proctor reached the side of the DJs station and waited.' DJs (plural) should be DJ's (possessive).
5) 'Ovals of red and green hurried across Proctors face.' Proctors (plural) should be Proctor's (possessive).
6) 'Pet shop .... management.' When using an ellipsis ( ... ), only use three dots. Using more is unusual and pulls the reader out of your story while they try to determine what you are trying to imply with four dots. You don't want that.
7) 'Can't be sure of the code can we honey,' she was still looking straight at him. Comma after 'we.' When you address someone in dialogue, offset their name or title with a comma. Also, question mark after 'honey' and capitalize 'she.'

Specific comments on the third chapter:
1) 'Proctor felt the heat in his fists and realized they were around the other mans neck and squeezing.' Try to avoid using the word 'felt.' Just describe the heat in his fists so vividly the reader will experience it along with Proctor. By doing this, the reader will be drawn deeper into the scene. Also, mans (plural) should be man's (possessive).
2) 'I'm two seconds away from losing it Grapey.' Comma after 'it.' When you address someone in dialogue, offset their name or title with a comma.
3) 'Their Pappa seemed to be taking the car forward with ... ' 'Pappa' should be lowercase. When a kinship term is modified it becomes a common noun and is lowercase, There is another case of this type of problem in this chapter.
4) 'Right Ladies and Gents this really is the last one.' Comma after 'right' and after 'Gents.'

Specific comments on the fourth chapter:
1) 'I see you are back little man, ... ' Comma after 'back.' When you address someone, offset their name or title with commas.
2) 'Watch your legs now Debbie love and we'll ... ' Comma after 'now' and after 'love.'

I hope these comments help you further polish your all important first chapters. These are just my opinions. Use what works for you and discard the rest.

Have a marvelous day.

Al

Crime/Thriller and sub genre review group
Title: Dropping Babies
Author: John O’Donnell

Wow Factor (Read Speed/Enjoyment)
[10] Speed
[9] Enjoyment
[9] Interest

Literacy (Editing/Proofing/Structure)
[4] Free of (obvious) Spelling Errors (see separate comments)
[4] Free of (obvious) Contextual Grammar Errors (see separate comments)
[5] Free of Distracting Dialogue

Story
[6] Coherent / Order
[8] Character/Subject Development

Marketing
[4] Cover Design
[8] Pitch

TOTAL
[67/100]

Comments: I read the first four chapters. A gripping opening. Vivid imagery. Strong sense of place. Well-managed tension. Crisp pacing.

Star rating: 4
My rating criteria: 1=not publishable, 5=publishable, 10=exceptionally publishable

HI John,
Sorry for the delay. I was sick for a couple days. Now I'm doing better.
Got up to chapter 5 and wanted to take notes and comment. Please remember that this is only my opinion and not to take anything personally.

Dropping Babies sounds like a dreadful title for a crime book but after a while you get the idea why.

The story begins like something out of a Hitchcock film - a woman is thrown into a hole to be buried alive.
I wanted to know what you meant by a "hole"? No description was made. I had to force myself to imagine that maybe you

meant a grave-sized ditch somewhere in the woods. I can't imagine if I'm being buried alive I would think to myself

while watching my assailant buying me - "he looks so lost?"


Comparrisons sometimes seemd odd in complex sentences: such as "minute sculptures of sand and decayed matter, falling

like ash from a forgotton cigarette";"Her body looked like an airbrushed landscape and her face, lost in the shade

from the ridges of her cheekbones down to a rim of moonlight along her jaw-line, felt like a foreign country."; "the

soil was so bastard thin..."; "He was coiled as tight as wet cloth."

Point of view also seems to switch from victim to assailant: first we see what happened to her, then what the killer

is planning to do next: "At least the petrol will keep the dogs away."; "Back tomorrow when the gate opens and finish

it."; etc.

Chapter two changes the scenery very suddenly to some party, where many of the characters are introduced. It's all

very British so I'm only assuming that this is what folks say and do normally. We get to see what sort of neighborhood

and town the story is set.

You have another unusual statement in chapter 3: "His sister's scream filled the car like iron", that was wierd. Followed immediately with "He awoke to see Orion with a diamond in the jet black night." It sounded so much like a cliqué.

The little part in chapter 4 made no sense to me. Like some commercial break on TV.

The police don't discovery a body from chapter one until chapter 5, which I think is already too late in the story. I recognized Grapes only because I had to re-read chapter one to catch his name. Again, chapter 5 is fragmented and hard to orientate where the reader and characters are at any point in time.

I don't know if this is part of the "noir-style" of crime that you mentioned in your synopsis, but so far I find it hard to continue reading. These fragmented and long-described sections with various changes in the scenes confused me more than once. Almost as if you're experimenting in a type of art-form which I didn't get.

I would make the burial scene in chapter one more concise with no POV changes.
Keep the party scene in chapter 2, but reduce it. Combine chapter 3 into chapter 2 where this lady shows up in a taxi with chapter two.

Remove chapter 4 as it is and start a new chapter 3 with the police ringing at the door of this nice Welsh neighbourhood - thus beginning the real story with the detective and all. You'll have better continuity and will not endanger your readers from getting confused or bored - and closing the book.

I hope this helps.
All the best

I really enjoyed this, John. There's a terrifically involving, almost noirish feel to the prose. It's spare and direct but all the more atmospheric for being so. Good use of internal monologue inserts. The conversational exchanges feel real and help drive the scenes. Convincing sense of a complex, multi-layered plot taking shape. I'm a huge fan of well written, darkly disturbing thrillers and this seems to fit the bill very nicely. Really good stuff. Thanks and best of luck.

Crime/Thriller and sub genre review group
Title: Dropping Babies
Author: John O’Donnell

Wow Factor (Read Speed/Enjoyment)
[6] Speed (I found myself having to go back and re-read things a few times)
[9] Enjoyment (I like the slowly unravelling nature of the narratives)
[8] Interest (very good scenes)

Literacy (Editing/Proofing/Structure)
[10] Free of (obvious) Spelling Errors
[08] Free of (obvious) Contextual Grammar Errors (couple of missing commas)
[10] Free of Distracting Dialog

Story
[8] Coherent / Order
[8] Character/Subject Development

Marketing
[4] Cover Design – I’ll do you one if you want.
[6] Pitch – (I think you could sell this more)

TOTAL
[77/100]

Comments: I read the first five chapters and was drawn in pretty quickly. Great descriptive detail and I particularly liked the way a number of different narratives are revealed gradually. I would recommend however that you mark jumps more clearly. By putting * * * in between these jumps then readers will find it easier. I’m not sure about the relevance of chapter 4 but I’m sure it becomes clear later on. I’ll be coming back to read more of this.
Star rating: 4

Liking the new chapters. This gets deeper, more noir than thriller, more packed with layers of meaning. I'd have to go back to the very beginning to give you a coherent critique - but for now, I love the moody, poetic, filmic intensity of your writing. Will come back and read again for pleasure.

Hi John,

Sorry for the delay in returning the read. But I got there in the end and ended up reading five chapters.

I am intrigued by this story, especially as I know the area well. The line, 'no one from round here moves to Nantwich' made me smile. It is well written and moves at a decent pace. It is more of a thoughtful character study around the opening hook rather than an action-packed thriller, but an intriguing storyline does emerge. The characterisation is subtle but effective and the dialogue is realistic. And unusually for this genre, there is an interesting use of language.

I agree with the reviewers who think the opening is disorientating (for the reader) but I think this is deliberate. In order to set up the narrative arc (and slip in back story) the reader has to see the first act from the victim's POV. It also builds intrigue as the reader is left wondering if the character eventually escapes.

I also agree with the reviewer about the level of description - it is down to personal preference and balance, but for this genre and for the trade-off with pace, I think it needs pruning, but not much.

Overall this is an enjoyable and engaging read, with a high standard of writing.

Again, sorry about the delay, but at least for me it was worth the wait!

Good luck with this, John, it deserves to do well.

Best wishes,

Terry

Hi John! This is a BHCG review from Rick (inspectorrick). I like the story, but not being from the area of England the story is set in, makes it difficult some times to follow what the hell is going on. I read a lot and usually figure it out sooner or later. I'm not suggesting you put a dictionary or map at the beginning, just be aware of the readers' limitations.

Pitches - very good, but for the short pitch maybe remove the woman's name.

Pacing - I found this area to be a problem but mostly because of the problem with the area specific comments and cliches (I'll explain further on). For someone who knows the area and the daily language this wouldn't likely be a problem.

Characters - I felt as if the characters were a bit two dimensional. It doesn't mean putting a whole lot of description into the story, but even a bit more of how they think would help. Who is the main character? Are we supposed to like, hate, feel sorry for them by Ch3? It isn't apparent yet.

POV - this is the area I referred to earlier. The changes is tense make the story wobble. Look at words such as 'was'. If something happens now, the word should be 'is'. I had to change tons of them myself and I'm still doing it. The first paragraph down to 'who the hell are you' needs to be changed so the reader understands they are Mavis' thoughts. The first sentence of the first paragraph stopped me. I couldn't understand 'her thoughts were elsewhere'.

Style - I like the way you write, but it seems as if you might be trying too hard.

Sentences - I'm not going to say anything about punctuation, but when it's missing, the story changes. Using cliches like - as fast as a left jab or area specific language - is off putting to the reader. I'm not saying it's wrong, just saying it might be too much so far. Also, as Keithyd said, the use of repeatitive words is not good. Do not dispare, this is a process. Someone once said that only God gets it right the first time, but what was he thinking when he made giraffes?

Dialogue - agian it is area specific, but the tone seemed correct.

As for originality/publishability I would have to say that you are on the right track. With some polishing, this could really work well as a story. Please accept my apologies if I've offended you with my comments. It's like removing a band-aid, you have to do it quick. Keep up the good work, and if you get a chance to tear into They, I'd appreciate it very much.
Rick.

Dropping Babies is an intelligent, contemporary noir thriller and as far removed from ‘airport fiction’ as any thriller could be and I salute you for that. It’s in that Euro-thriller tradition, and that just underscores, to this reader, that thrillers really do come in many different guises. Set over five days, putting a clock on it in this way propels the narrative. Then there are the sinister overtones, which, I confess, at times had my hand over my mouth in that opening chapter, at the way Mavis was so de-humanised. The Wirral, the place that most U.K. residents would scratch their heads to locate, is a perfect setting for this. And the Stanlow Refinery, lit up light like a sci-fi Christmas tree at night, was the catalyst for RE….. So you’ll have to forgive this rather biased critique.

Each character is distinct and so too is their dialogue.

I read up to the end of Chapter 3 but I’ll be back. Highly starred and on the W/L.
Lambert Nagle - Revolution Earth

This is absolutely first rate. Deeply impressed by the quality of the writing (even the genre thing of using italics which I usually find lazy somehow works here - maybe it's because other people don't use it properly, but you do), the atmosphere, a really genuine sense of unease and suspense, characters all feel fresh, real and interesting, as is the place which is a brilliant setting (never been), as it feels a isolated and strange and bleak - reminded me in all the best ways of those Nordic crime thrillers but a touch of Brighton Rock if you know what I mean, especially Proctor and Grapes. Am on chapter 8. Very fond of Gabriel Joyce and his chess playing aunt. They offer relief from scary, oddball world. Will back and rate highly and read avidly as it's a page turner too.

ps I agree with the final point made by Keithyd below (although not so much the minor quibbles). Some people want too much explained. Truly good suspense is often like being in a fog. This really, really unnerving feeling lends a lot of power to your book, but also we have confidence in you as a writer that you know what you're doing and where we're going. If you don't, then you're an even better writer!

BHCG Feedback.
Hi John, I struggle a bit with the BHCG format but will do my best to respond to your story. I wanted to read more but got really bogged down by some of the chapters.
Chapter 1.
This is what drew me in, especially the first four paragraphs. Then we reach para5 where she is looking in the mirror. Maybe use looked like/resembled a foreign country instead of 'feel.'
For the remainder of this feedback I will use a question mark after phrase to indicate that I couldn't understand the meaning; however that may be my problem specifically.
'Teasing through the silence with his fingers?
Sway of the S (sea) carried up the cliff edge with the breeze?
Maybe, 'Sorry,' Grapes whispered.
Chapter 2.
Maybe consider consider dispensing with Proctor's first name.
Fat son Gary already on 5th coke. maybe omit 'reckoned.'
Is the Mad Bitch mum or Auntie Bella?
The seconds straightened up. Or second-hand straightened up?
Was beckoned over - by who?
Who's DJ Tit - going out with Clare - who is sixty not sixteen/ I have lost this para completely. Does this refer to Gran, his mum or Clare?
Organic & metal stains in the air?
Chapter 3.
After Stellen paid (omit had).
glissando?
Saw the heads. But only one person there.
Grapes saw the soil?
Defo?
Car forward with heavy leaden steps?
Chapter 4.
Struggled with this.
Chapter 5.
First paras great.
Chapter 6.
I cannot make out who is talking, man or woman/ Setting 'Old Folks Home?'
Joyce the 'man' threw me. Could introduce him properly.
As you can see, (comma).
Barbecue
You'll take a drink? Why have you finished all you own again?
Well, I won't be keeping you Stellen, (commas).
Chapter 7.
Checking the time, (comma).
Probably housewife so start at Marks and Spencers?
I don't know who is the subject in Italics.
Tent poles are always rigid - aren't they? mine are, hopefully.
Don't use the Rook again. maybe you let the reader know that a chessboard is set out and whether this is a continuing game. remember, yiou can visualise yiour story, the reader needs some clues.
Gold curves of a key?
No gone his way before?
Bourne back (borne)
Chapter 8
Nearly certain (maybe omit nearly, a bit weak).
What happened this morning Sir, (comma).
For a tall man he...Stellen or Joyce?
My parents...these days (Those days).
Weathers fine. (Weather's).
Chapter 9.
Para in italics. Again unsure of who this is.
She was hovering at the door. (She hovered at the door).
Seems keen on getting hold of you Gabriel, shutting the door. Who is shutting the door?
He was looking for. He searched/looked for.
I struggled to follow this chapter and of how it advances the plot.

I note that you have many comments regarding the bits I missed out and am aware that most are very positive. Please take what I have written as being constructive. Maybe bear in mind it is the Publisher's reader you have to convince and ALL glitches should be ironed out prior to submission.

Chris.

Now I don't really read many gangster books; the archetypal genre traditions seem ever-presented whether being flouted or followed. Cormac McCarthy is perhaps a notable exception.

Anyway, "Dropping Babies" sets off with brutish immediacy, though the violence is nicely tempered by the shallow focus musings of the dying woman. And clearly not wishing to waste any time, the narrative then jumps into the mind of one of her murderers, then into the mind of the crime boss, then into the mind of an unspecified nordic type, then... Well, I assume it stops jumping once the main protagonists have been introduced, though maybe not.

The characters are believably sketched out in a few lines, the language contracting into the idioms of the person being described. This lends the scenes a strong and visceral sense of place. It also puts demands on the prose, with similes pasted like go-faster strips down the sides of otherwise successful paragraphs (eg. "like an airbrushed landscape", "face felt... like a foreign country" (???), "as fast as a left jab a pantomime grin appeared").

The story is immediately engaging and the characters instantly intriguing, which I imagine are the twin goals of the gangster genre. So a successful opening all round. It's just, even as the cricket bat is bouncing off my head, I never truly feel any real sense of jeopardy.

A very promising book, shelved and all, which I will return to again.

Best of luck on the site.

Martin Taylor