Kings and Tyrants

Hi Duane,

I love the Ancient Greek time period, even though my historical novel is set in ancient Rome, so I thought I'd check your book out. Here's a few thoughts I had as I read the first chapter.

Contrasting an athlete’s physique with a wasted invalid, nice word picture!

You hit the reader with several big, foreign, unfamiliar names right off the bat in this first paragraph or so. What/who/where are Parnassos, Phaidriadai, Krisa, Romaioi, Neron, Konstantonous, Sebastos Ioulianous? The readers mind, not to mention tongue can’t really grasp or pronounce so many big names all at once.

It does become clear in just a little bit that the Romaioi are Romans, and that Khristos is Christ, so it becomes a little less confusing, but there’s still a lot of unanswered questions, and the first paragraph is a heavy read.

I think overall your introduction with the Pythia writing this history is a unique angle for a narrator and thus very interesting. I would shy away from classifying your 5-part series as a bedtime story though...makes it sound like it’s going to be a dozy story, which it should be anything but given the subject matter. I know you want to keep the authenticity of using the old forms of every name and old Greek words, but beware of using it too much and losing a less-educated reader who doesn’t want to jump through all the mental hoops to figure out what you’re talking about.

Still, you’ve obviously done your research here and the character development starts early on and draws the reader in, so I’m starring this highly and will back it as well.

All best wishes for your success, and if you get a chance to check out and comment on A War Within please feel free.

Nathan Maki

Very impressive and very well researched book. I have always had a passing interest in Greek mythology, however your book made it come alive. An enthralling and captivating read – Brilliant.

'Dirty blond waves frames a youthful face'. Lovely stuff. And this sums up how I feel about this impeccably researched historical novel. It has been crafted by a writer who really knows who to write. You engage the reader immediately and give us a true sense of time and space. I would imagine, and it is not a genre I know well, that is is an exemplary example of it.
Carl
The Time hunters

You are like so totally fantastic, Duane! :) How can I ever thank you enough for backing my 2 memoir books? :) God bless you. :) Love, Susie :)

Bravo author. I have to hand you the trophy. This is well researched and the details are stunning. You have crafted a remarkable historical fiction and the use if the subject first person makes it so much more exciting. The descriptions are good and the characters have depth. Nice setting.

Backed for sure
The Lord of the Dawn

Really good, can't wait for the other works, good luck with it. E.Loraine Royal Blood Chronicles book one

Dear Dwight, I love that you took the time to research all of this so we can see what happened over 2000 years ago - you are amazing. :) Before I began to read your book, I was prepared by your recap/pitch,which was very well done. :) Your story is good because you create interest by having short paragraphs & lots of dialogue, which makes me want to keep reading to find out what's going to happen next. I'm "backing" your book: When you back a book, it only improves the ranking of that book, not yours. However, the author whose book you are backing may decide to back your book also, in which case yes, your ranking would be improved...authonomy. :) Please "back" my TWO memoir books, "He Loves Me, He Loves Me Not" & my completed memoir unedited version? "Tell Me True Love Stories," which tells at the end, my illness now & 6th abusive marriage." Thanks, Susie :)
p.s. Remember: Every time you place a book on your bookshelf, your recommendation pushes the book up the rankings. And while that book sits on your bookshelf, your reputation as a talent spotter increases depending on how well that book performs. :)

KINGS AND TYRANTS
This is an interesting book. Embarrassingly, I don’t know a lot about Greek history, so reading this was an enlightening experience for me as well as enjoying a good story. It’s not a fast book to read; a person needs to clear an afternoon of distractions before starting to read it in order to get into it because it is so loaded with detail. The reward of doing that is watching Greek history come alive on the pages. I’m adding this to my shelf. Burgio (Grain of Salt).

I love the cover and title, excellent. I have always been interested in greek mythology which drew me to this. The opening is not unlike reading an ancient greek story in itself. Almost poetic and very well done. It flows very well with great pace. This was a joy to read. backed with pleasure.

Sandie
The Crown of Crysaldor

How can I be expected to comment truthfully on a book of this sort? I love all the old legends and myths, I read about the Romans, Egyptians and all the other near east nations of those times. Also the central American and South American peoples. This book is just as enthralling as all of those, and so very interesting to read, in an easy way, because it is written for people like me, who are a bit thick. No, seriously, this is brilliant, there is no other word for it. Backed earlier, late with my comment. I wish you very good luck.
Norman.

Hi Duane, Again, it was like visiting a place where we usually only read of heros and gods. You’ve made this so human and I liked following Agariste’s story. What I concentrated more here were the family histories in Chapters 7 and 8. Last time I read, I was caught up in the beginning action. You’ve imagined this so thoroughly that it feels utterly convincing. And it has interrupted flow that can immerse. Shelved – Katherine (The Swan Bonnet)

When I was a child, my favorite books were about Greek mythology. I generally read sci-fi these days but I always love this type of book. The font is a little small on my screen even at full magnification, Hard on old eyes.
‘In all my days as Pythia the god had not spoken to me.’ – I didn’t quite understand this. ‘Besides, the god rarely spoke…’ – Is there only one god? I thought there were many gods for them.
This is a great story and to think you will have five novels is amazing. I would live to read them all, but I have to find time to read others and to write, haven’t written anything for days.
I will back this with great pleasure and I will look out for it in the bookstore.
Tony
Life Bringer

Hi Tony,
thanks for your comments and support!
As to your question: although there were many gods, Greeks also referred to a single god - either as representative for all gods or, in the case of the Pythia, as a specific reference to Apollo (whose sanctuary Delphi was).

When I was a child, my favorite books were about Greek mythology. I generally read sci-fi these days but I always love this type of book. The font is a little small on my screen even at full magnification, Hard on old eyes.
‘In all my days as Pythia the god had not spoken to me.’ – I didn’t quite understand this. ‘Besides, the god rarely spoke…’ – Is there only one god? I thought there were many gods for them.
This is a great story and to think you will have five novels is amazing. I would live to read them all, but I have to find time to read others and to write, haven’t written anything for days.

I will back this with great pleasure and I will look out for it in the bookstore.

Tony
Life Bringer

Duane, I skipped the prologue and read chapter 1 instead because that was where you lost me the first time. I must say that it’s a great improvement. The overload has disappeared, the writing is much more airy, there’s no confusion as to who is who and the descriptions are lively. This time, I’m backing the story.
Iva P.
Fame and Infamy

Thank you, Iva!

Duane, I skipped the prologue and read chapter 1 instead because that was where you lost me the first time. I must say that it’s a great improvement. The overload has disappeared, the writing is much more airy, there’s no confusion as to who is who and the descriptions are lively. This time, I’m backing the story.

Iva P.
Fame and Infamy

Duane-- I applaud your ambition in undertaking such a momentous series. I am a fan of historical fiction, and my initial look over the opening of this shows it to be a great balance of careful research and smooth, elegant writing. This is not a period I am overly familiar with, though I am familiar with the Greek gods and goddesses and many of the legends so I do have a grounding from which to approach-- but you are doing such a good job with the description and give us strong characters to guide us through a very long and intriguing journey that a complete novice would happily read this.

Back for more, but shelved for now...

Ruth/Base Spirits

I know this is good. I read it before. And I like it even better this time around. I did a lot of historical research on the tme period in writing my book, so I know how realistic the excellent prose of "Kings and Tyrants" is. Great job.

Hi,
Apologies for only read ing the first two chapters.
I must say it is beautifully written in an evocative abd stylish prose. I really enjoyed the part I read.
It seems to me to read much better but I'm not sure why. It might be my own mood or state of mind, but I found this exemplary.

If I hadn't already backed this I would do so now. (I did back it last time)
best of luck with this.

Thanks for your kind words!

Hi,
Apologies for only read ing the first two chapters.

I must say it is beautifully written in an evocative abd stylish prose. I really enjoyed the part I read.

It seems to me to read much better but I'm not sure why. It might be my own mood or state of mind, but I found this exemplary.

If I hadn't already backed this I would do so now. (I did back it last time)
best of luck with this.

As a person who appreciates true and historical accounts, things that actually makes sense, I am obviously enamored of this undertaking you've begun. Nice quick pace at the beginning with some action to draw us immediately in! As someone who also appreciates the genius of McCullough, and tries to fashion himself after her, I would like to offer one tiny bit of advice (yours to do with as you see fit). I am on my second book of my series, the first being already published, and the biggest criticism I have had on both was that I had too much Latin.. all the confusing names alongside of general Latin terms for the time.

While to me, there is no difference between Korinthos and Corinth, Neron and Nero, etc... it will not be so for many readers. I found that dropping some of the terms (not all) for unimportant things like "office", "dining room", etc, helped my readers follow along better, and make more sense out of my characters' names. Just a thought! I would love to see this get picked, and look forward to many returns to continue my reading this saga!

Well done and backed - TSCHÜβ
David :)

This is good stuff. Your research shines through. You do a very good job of showing how alien Greek culture is to our own.
Backed.

The more I read of your book, the more I am convinced that it is an epic aimed at true history buffs. I can't help comparing it to Colleen McCullough's series - the more you know the material, the better you can appreciate it. You asked me how newcomers to the era could be made less lost. The only way I can think of making your book accessible to everyone would be to completely change the style. It's like comparing McCullough's series to Conn Iggulden's series. Both are based on Caesar and the end of the Roman Republic, but they are very different. Iggulden's 'Emperor' novels are more like movies with snappy dramatic scenes that entertain the reader more than inform. To put it another way, Iggulden didn't let the truth get in the way of his story. MuCullough, on the other hand, translated every event into fiction. Your book, I feel, is written for scholars, like McCullough's, who proved books like that can fly off the shelves. Keep writing the way you do, and people will enjoy your book on many levels.

I'm a huge fan of Collen McCullough's 'Master of Rome' series. Reading your novel, I find myself comparing it to hers. You write with excellent authority, almost in the form of an essay. This is a novel for true fan of the era. Those without much knowledge on the details of ancient Greek culture and politics (like me) will feel daunted by reading you epic. I spent a long time studying the later era of the Roman republic, so I could throw myslef into McCullough's books. But I feel anyone without prior knowledge of the era will feel a bit lost at first. That's how I feel with your book. But, because of your writing skills and engaging story, and the way you 'teach' your reader, I will read on. I happily shelved your book. Kepp going - this will be a monster series for true history buffs.

Hi David!
thanks so much for your comments!
Any ideas as to how newcomers to the era could be made less lost?

I'm a huge fan of Collen McCullough's 'Master of Rome' series. Reading your novel, I find myself comparing it to hers. You write with excellent authority, almost in the form of an essay. This is a novel for true fan of the era. Those without much knowledge on the details of ancient Greek culture and politics (like me) will feel daunted by reading you epic. I spent a long time studying the later era of the Roman republic, so I could throw myslef into McCullough's books. But I feel anyone without prior knowledge of the era will feel a bit lost at first. That's how I feel with your book. But, because of your writing skills and engaging story, and the way you 'teach' your reader, I will read on. I happily shelved your book. Kepp going - this will be a monster series for true history buffs.

Hi Duane, this has the makings of a real classic series, almost Homeric in its scope. Your prologue sets the scene perfectly for an epic tale though I spotted two alreadys in the first para. The competition for the hand of Agariste is superbly handled with enough action and conflict to keep the reader interested and some effective characterisation. I think you have made Agariste and Megakles whilst avoiding the cliches of HF - both believable as characters and I find myself wanting to see how things work out for them. Diaktorides, however, comes across more as a villain from a modern thriller rather than in ancient myth where the machinations of the gods are usually to blame for the evils that men do. I expect his psychology will be fleshed out in due course.
I think some minor cuts could be made to improve the flow. For instance, I found the list of suitors unnecessary, assuming they don't show up later on in the story and I would stick to English terms where possible. I don't have a problem with the historical sections though, I think it's fair to assume your readership would have an interest in ancient history anyway. I can see you know your stuff and it's always entertaining to hear an authoritative account of the ancient world. Scenes like the wrestling show a real mastery of technique - the way you co-ordinate the action to the unfolding drama is enviable. As you probably can guess I'm a sucker for Ancient Greek and will be coming back to this for more - shelved.
I hope you get the chance to look over my own Bronze Age saga - Fire in the Water.
best wishes, Kevin

Wow, Kevin, thanks so much for your comments!
Even your suggestions - yes, I have been considering these issues already and am working on a revision.
Thanks again!

Hi Duane, this has the makings of a real classic series, almost Homeric in its scope. Your prologue sets the scene perfectly for an epic tale though I spotted two alreadys in the first para. The competition for the hand of Agariste is superbly handled with enough action and conflict to keep the reader interested and some effective characterisation. I think you have made Agariste and Megakles whilst avoiding the cliches of HF - both believable as characters and I find myself wanting to see how things work out for them. Diaktorides, however, comes across more as a villain from a modern thriller rather than in ancient myth where the machinations of the gods are usually to blame for the evils that men do. I expect his psychology will be fleshed out in due course.

I think some minor cuts could be made to improve the flow. For instance, I found the list of suitors unnecessary, assuming they don't show up later on in the story and I would stick to English terms where possible. I don't have a problem with the historical sections though, I think it's fair to assume your readership would have an interest in ancient history anyway. I can see you know your stuff and it's always entertaining to hear an authoritative account of the ancient world. Scenes like the wrestling show a real mastery of technique - the way you co-ordinate the action to the unfolding drama is enviable. As you probably can guess I'm a sucker for Ancient Greek and will be coming back to this for more - shelved.

I hope you get the chance to look over my own Bronze Age saga - Fire in the Water.

best wishes, Kevin

Hi Jen,

thanks for your read and comments!

Hi Duane
What I liked best about this is how fully immersive you've made the Greek world. Your complete lack of fear in throwing Greek terminology at the reader puts one right into Ancient Greece from the get go. Loved the beginning with the oracle, it makes for a beautiful scene setter and is very atmospheric.
I did find that on occasion you put too many historic info-dump explanations too close together which distracts slightly from the action of the story.
Can't fault the characterisation at all, as I was rooting for Megakles from the chariot race onwards.
So, all in all, loved it!

A sweeping, ambitious project and one to which I can add little that hasn't already been raised in the comments. I'm putting it on my shelf because what you've presented so far is a compelling tale, intricately researched and well put together. Also, because I'm curious to see what HC will make of this when and if it gets to the Editors' Desk. What market do they think this kind of work has? I'm thinking small, but knowledgable and passionate. The trouble is that I suspect such readers, like myself, prefer to learn their ancient Greek history from the modern and contemporary historians. It's tough to make great fiction out of what is already such a grand and compelling set of stories and there aren't many writers who can pull it off. I sense that there's a huge amount of hard but highly enjoyable work ahead of you, and I wish you the best of luck!

Hi Ian!
thank you so much for your comments. Yes, it won't be the easiest thing to get this book published, but if Colleen McCullough can publish a 7 volume historical novel about Roman History... ? :-)

A sweeping, ambitious project and one to which I can add little that hasn't already been raised in the comments. I'm putting it on my shelf because what you've presented so far is a compelling tale, intricately researched and well put together. Also, because I'm curious to see what HC will make of this when and if it gets to the Editors' Desk. What market do they think this kind of work has? I'm thinking small, but knowledgable and passionate. The trouble is that I suspect such readers, like myself, prefer to learn their ancient Greek history from the modern and contemporary historians. It's tough to make great fiction out of what is already such a grand and compelling set of stories and there aren't many writers who can pull it off. I sense that there's a huge amount of hard but highly enjoyable work ahead of you, and I wish you the best of luck!

Duane,
It's taken me a while to get to your novel, I'm afraid, but when I finally did, it was well worth my time. Your writing style suits the story very well -- Homeric, rather than Classical. I like the prologue as well; it's like a "crane shot" in film, a distanced view of the historic panorama. Love the "curious children" line! The whole prologue has a mystical, far-flung quality that sets the mood beautifully. You might want to take another look at the sentence beginning with "As a young woman already it seemed...." (Grammatically the referent for "it" would be "young woman", and I know that's not what you mean.) Could be: "As a young woman, I already sensed...." or "Even when I was a young woman, it seemed...." The characters in the first chapter have a good feel, ancient yet somehow familiar and real. This is tricky to do, as I've learned in my own writing. You do just enough with the descriptions to let us fill in the rest, which is what a reader must do to become involved in the story. However, all that cataloguing of names and places gets tedious sometimes (so-and-so, son of so-and-so...., etc) . Try narrowing the lists down to a few important ones that you want us to remember then just mention the others as "Prince of Corinth" or something like that. The Greco spellings are fine, but too many of them make it hard to sort them out. Maybe you could borrow from Homer and give the important ones epithets, like "golden-haired so-and-so." Your novel has a lot of promise, and I hope to get back and read more after my carpal tunnel surgery. Until then, I can't stay on the keyboard for very long at a time.
Susan

Hi Susan,
thanks very much! I hope you continue to read!

Duane,
It's taken me a while to get to your novel, I'm afraid, but when I finally did, it was well worth my time. Your writing style suits the story very well -- Homeric, rather than Classical. I like the prologue as well; it's like a "crane shot" in film, a distanced view of the historic panorama. Love the "curious children" line! The whole prologue has a mystical, far-flung quality that sets the mood beautifully. You might want to take another look at the sentence beginning with "As a young woman already it seemed...." (Grammatically the referent for "it" would be "young woman", and I know that's not what you mean.) Could be: "As a young woman, I already sensed...." or "Even when I was a young woman, it seemed...." The characters in the first chapter have a good feel, ancient yet somehow familiar and real. This is tricky to do, as I've learned in my own writing. You do just enough with the descriptions to let us fill in the rest, which is what a reader must do to become involved in the story. However, all that cataloguing of names and places gets tedious sometimes (so-and-so, son of so-and-so...., etc) . Try narrowing the lists down to a few important ones that you want us to remember then just mention the others as "Prince of Corinth" or something like that. The Greco spellings are fine, but too many of them make it hard to sort them out. Maybe you could borrow from Homer and give the important ones epithets, like "golden-haired so-and-so." Your novel has a lot of promise, and I hope to get back and read more after my carpal tunnel surgery. Until then, I can't stay on the keyboard for very long at a time.
Susan

Duane,
It's taken me a while to get to your novel, I'm afraid, but when I finally did, it was well worth my time. Your writing style suits the story very well -- Homeric, rather than Classical. I like the prologue as well; it's like a "crane shot" in film, a distanced view of the historic panorama. Love the "curious children" line! The whole prologue has a mystical, far-flung quality that sets the mood beautifully. You might want to take another look at the sentence beginning with "As a young woman already it seemed...." (Grammatically the referent for "it" would be "young woman", and I know that's not what you mean.) Could be: "As a young woman, I already sensed...." or "Even when I was a young woman, it seemed...." The characters in the first chapter have a good feel, ancient yet somehow familiar and real. This is tricky to do, as I've learned in my own writing. You do just enough with the descriptions to let us fill in the rest, which is what a reader must do to become involved in the story. However, all that cataloguing of names and places gets tedious sometimes (so-and-so, son of so-and-so...., etc) . Try narrowing the lists down to a few important ones that you want us to remember then just mention the others as "Prince of Corinth" or something like that. The Greco spellings are fine, but too many of them make it hard to sort them out. Maybe you could borrow from Homer and give the important ones epithets, like "golden-haired so-and-so." Your novel has a lot of promise, and I hope to get back and read more after my carpal tunnel surgery. Until then, I can't stay on the keyboard for very long at a time.
Susan

Hi Duane—I’ve been meaning to drop in on this for some time, and I’m glad I did! First off, prologues. I generally dislike them, especially when they don’t do much for the story but simply set tone and place as your does. I can’t explain it, but I really like yours. Not to say that some publisher or agent might want it removed for fashion’s sake, and I can see the argument that it doesn’t further the story, but there is something disarmingly honest and, in contrast to later writing, beautifully delicate about the writing there. It also strikes me as Homeric—not that it’s the same style, but the last paragraph was almost like a tribute to “Oh Muse!”

Nice choice of scene to start on—chariot races have that familiar yet foreign historical flavor to them, so it’s a comfortable yet exciting place to start. I am a bit unsure about the description vs. action in the opening—it might read better if we saw these two in action, rather than have them described to us. You can also watch out for redundancy in the statements—if they are world-class athletes, as charioteers must have been, we can assume that they are quite fit!

I’m also a little unsure about the dive into historical narrative after the race. I’m on a bit of a high, having just watched a very exciting sporting event, but instead of continuing on that strain of joviality and excitement, I feel a bit like I’m opening a history text. Not that I don’t trust you, the author, to select what information is important—I’m sure this is important stuff, and it isn’t badly written at all. I think, though, that you’re skilled enough to work it into the story in a bit more palatable of a way, that feels more like action and less like backstory.

I do like the complicating feature of the daughter as a prize who doesn’t want the man—and he doesn’t want her, either. This adds a nice additional element to what I suspect will be a more action-driven storyline, and will round things out nicely. Watch for Agariste’s dialogue in the opening of chapter 2—it seems just the littlest bit forced, as though the main aim here is to expose her feeling for the reader, not to express herself to her servant and confidante. I feel as though the reader isn’t quite invisible here, if that makes sense.

This story is certainly opening out into a saga—best with it! I have every confidence that your dynamic, ambitious characters will spin a delightful story.

One suggestion I would make, although perhaps selfish, is for the author to provide footnotes for technical terms, geographic points of interest, and other key historical facts. Although for many terms the author provided explanations and definitions within the text (e.g. loutron [Ch. 8] and apobatai [Ch. 11]), and other terms were self-explanatory (e.g. stlengis [Ch. 5]), the reader may enjoy an elaboration on some of the other cultural artifacts. For example, himation [Ch. 4], perizoma (Ch. 5), pteruges [Ch. 9], perizomata [Ch. 10], agora and akontes [Ch. 11]).
I look forward to publication so I can read how the story ends. It is my hope that this is not a Greek tragedy, but instead we find our hero Megakles mete out punishment to the villain Diaktorides.

Hi Todd! Nice to see you here!
I will address your suggestions...
I personally have nothing against fottnotes, but fiction publishers dislike them.
However, I plan - and have already written - appendices and a glossary giving explanations for a lot of the unfamiliar.
Thanks for your other comments - very encouraging!
Duane

Dear Duane,
Your prologue was stunning, beautifully written--majestic, actually--and I had the immediate sense of reading an epic, with all the grand foundations of myth. i felt this was an excellent set-up. As a reader I was transported to a different realm, and able to break from the world we live in. Your prose felt as authentic as if I'd been reading a classic.
Chapter 1 introduces a characters, paints the landscape, and delights your readers with narrative that pulses with excitement and action. I'm truly amazed at your mastery of the language and the grasp you have of the time period, as those this all comes naturally to you. Your narrative is eloquent, and is set off by dialogue that rings true to the spirit of the story. My only difficulty, and this is unavoidable, is keeping the names straight because they are foreign to me--but if you were to use simpler names the story wouldn't ring as true as it does now.
Your characters seem almost godlike in appearance. I'm not sure how that fits with history, but it makes for a compelling read. Readers love the heroic, warrior types. The chariot race was awesome, and although it's been a long time since I've seen one in an old movie, I was able to picture it in my mind. All of the action was vivid and real-time exciting.
As I moved on in the book I enjoyed the backstory very much, because it further grounded me in the story even though it did slow the story down a bit. I think that may be necessary and no harm changing the pace to accomodate important facts for the readers to understand.
I found nothing technical or stylistic that detracted from the story. It's written with mastery and I'm proud to shelve it.
Lizzi
Dionysus

HI Lizzi!
well, what can I say? A dream review! I am very glad you liked it so much!
Cheers,
Duane

I had the pleasure of completing the first 13 chapters of Kings and Tyrants. I wasn’t sure what to expect since historical fiction is not something I typically read, however, I was pleasantly surprised. Since I am neither an expert in English nor ancient history, my critique is simply from the perspective of one reading purely for enjoyment, and I was not disappointed.

The story captured my interest from Chapter 1, and I was compelled to continue reading nearly non-stop until finished. The main heroes and heroine (Megakles, Hippokleides, and Agariste) are likeable and believable characters, and their relationships to one another are enviable. This leads the reader to root for their success before, during, and after their venture to Athenai.

Kings and Tyrants will hold interest for the historian and novice alike. There were many historical references which are likely to appeal to the Ancient Greek connoisseur, but the information is melded expertly with fiction as not to overwhelm the novice. In fact, the novel serves as a non-obtrusive lesson in both history and humanities. An example is the colorful reference to Greek mythology where Athena sprang forth from Zeus’ headache relief (Ch. 10). For a period and subject that could easily turn into a laborious accounting of history, the text flows well, it is an easy and enjoyable read, and chapters are an appropriate length.

One of the most enjoyable aspects of the piece is the rich descriptions of the various settings. Whether the author is describing a skirmish along a dusty trail, a major battle for an island, a foot or chariot race, or the austere furnishings of Peisistratos’ home, the reader finds himself or herself 2,500 years aforetime. Enlighteningly, the chronicle of events such as the festival of Panathenaia “all-nighter” and the anything goes pankration (Ch. 12) reminds us that there really is nothing new under the sun 2,500 years afterwards.

One suggestion I would make, although perhaps selfish, is for the author to provide footnotes for technical terms, geographic points of interest, and other key historical facts. Although for many terms the author provided explanations and definitions within the text (e.g. loutron [Ch. 8] and apobatai [Ch. 11]), and other terms were self-explanatory (e.g. stlengis [Ch. 5]), the reader may enjoy an elaboration on some of the other cultural artifacts. For example, himation [Ch. 4], perizoma (Ch. 5), pteruges [Ch. 9], perizomata [Ch. 10], agora and akontes [Ch. 11]).

I look forward to publication so I can read how the story ends. It is my hope that this is not a Greek tragedy, but instead we find our hero Megakles mete out punishment to the villain Diaktorides.

Hi Duane, I read the Prologue and first chapter and enjoyed them.
I have some comments, which are probably philosophical, and if you disagree with me then I see nothing to change.
I found the Prologue off-putting - it didn't seem to lead into the opening chapter in any way, in terms of context, characters, or voice. Therefore I would drop it.
The language of English with random Greek words is distracting as well as inconsistent - I believe you should write in English, as our present-day experience of speaking and thinking naturally, the nearest we can get to the actual experience of Greeks speaking Greek. If you have an English word, use it, where 'poet', 'athlete', or 'get set!' If you need to mention an object or concept that has no equivalent in English, then you're justified in using a non-English word. But not otherwise. The Greeks weren't interspersing their speech with other languages.
That said, I enjoyed the race, and I'm backing the book.
Best,
Robin

Hi Robin,
first of all, thanks for your praise and backing!
Yes, the use of Greek names / words appears to be an issue for some, educational for others. I'm not quite decided what I may change. Your point is well made, but I don't entirely agree.
Colleen McCullough used many Latin terms in her very successful "Masters of Rome" series to lend a touch of authenticity.
In my case: the Greek world was, in some ways, very alien, and I think an attempt to "anglicize" it too much could trivialize the mood.

Oh well, we'll see!
Cheers,
Duane

HI Duane,
I love this book!
Keep it up!

Hi Duane, I read the Prologue and first chapter and enjoyed them.
I have some comments, which are probably philosophical, and if you disagree with me then I see nothing to change.
I found the Prologue off-putting - it didn't seem to lead into the opening chapter in any way, in terms of context, characters, or voice. Therefore I would drop it.
The language of English with random Greek words is distracting as well as inconsistent - I believe you should write in English, as our present-day experience of speaking and thinking naturally, the nearest we can get to the actual experience of Greeks speaking Greek. If you have an English word, use it, where 'poet', 'athlete', or 'get set!' If you need to mention an object or concept that has no equivalent in English, then you're justified in using a non-English word. But not otherwise. The Greeks weren't interspersing their speech with other languages.
That said, I enjoyed the race, and I'm backing the book.
Best,
Robin

Duane,
This is quite an achievement. I can only imagine the amount of research this took. You seem to have nailed the setting of the times. I love that this story teaches as well as entertains. I feel like I've had a bit of a history lesson :)
You have some truly incredible descriptions and I thought you dialogue sounded believable for the time period.
Happy to give this a turn on my shelf.
Heidi
Turning Red

Hi Heidi
Hi D.
thanks so much for your (very encouraging) comments!
Cheers,
Duane

Hi Duane,
Surprise surprise, I love it! 'Historical-faction', I see. Don't you agree the true story (or as near as we can get to it) is so much better, so much more satisfying than swords and sandals yarns?
Having said that you are going to come up against a few issues, which I noticed you've been presented with, already. From my perspective, I love reading the old classics and enjoy being given facts. I see books as an investment of time that should yield up more than just entertainment, but I know I'm in the minority on this one, so you might be asked to make compromises if it comes to publication.
That I'll have to leave to you, but you seem to be having the same objections to what I have encountered, such as complicated names and a tendency to elucidate. Indeed you have chosen the same method as me by writing '-' then explanation, instead of relying on a glossary at the back like Colleen McCullough did.
Chatting to a chap on here who writes sword and sandal type novels he gave me a little bit of an indicator of what editors are wanting for this genre- don't be afraid of white space and short sentences.
The only benefit I saw from this, was, I had to admit, the sense of immediacy. If you start a new paragraph instead of using conjunctive words like which, you can go on to use '-ing' words, which make the action sound more immediate.
When I thought of my novel in the more modern sense it did attain a greater fluidity. I never noticed it before, because I read so many classics, thus I'm used to reading what lots of people find difficult. I'm not saying you are necessarily the same, but the one thing I did to counter that was ask my friends and family what they thought things were I thought were simple and common knowledge, but, because I'd been so immersed in the technical language I tended to forget they were quiet complex. The opposite was true also, so that can help you too.
In general though, I'm with you on the style. I find that the common style of writing sword and sandal novels a bit 'fictiony', as though it reads like fiction and will therefore be a fiction. I take it, like me, that's not what you're going for? Perhaps this is a new dimension on the historical-fiction genre, like those docu-dramas on TV nowadays- a sort of hybrid between fact and fiction.
You may be successful, as Colleen McCullough was, but it's always worth keeping in mind she was already an established writer when she did her 'Masters' series and attempting to get the greatest market is what a publisher will want.
Of course you're aware of all this already, I'm sure and I truly hope this sort of book is the future in the genre.
I must say, before I go, that I very much like the fact that you don't use the dialogue to set the scene and carry the plot. I know, for some people it breaks the fluidity, but I feel the over all sense of realism is maintained much better when you use dialogue to convey the characters and not use them as sign-posts to where you are taking the plot. This does result in explanations, which, again, is something some dislike- but it's a complicated subject, so I say persevere.
It'd be good to hear from you in the future.
Best of luck,
D.
P.S. So shelved!

Hi D.
thanks so much for your (very encouraging) comments!
I know exactly what you are saying, but I will try to remain true to my vision while making revisions.
Cheers,
Duane

Hi Duane,

Surprise surprise, I love it! 'Historical-faction', I see. Don't you agree the true story (or as near as we can get to it) is so much better, so much more satisfying than swords and sandals yarns?

Having said that you are going to come up against a few issues, which I noticed you've been presented with, already. From my perspective, I love reading the old classics and enjoy being given facts. I see books as an investment of time that should yield up more than just entertainment, but I know I'm in the minority on this one, so you might be asked to make compromises if it comes to publication.

That I'll have to leave to you, but you seem to be having the same objections to what I have encountered, such as complicated names and a tendency to elucidate. Indeed you have chosen the same method as me by writing '-' then explanation, instead of relying on a glossary at the back like Colleen McCullough did.

Chatting to a chap on here who writes sword and sandal type novels he gave me a little bit of an indicator of what editors are wanting for this genre- don't be afraid of white space and short sentences.

The only benefit I saw from this, was, I had to admit, the sense of immediacy. If you start a new paragraph instead of using conjunctive words like which, you can go on to use '-ing' words, which make the action sound more immediate.

When I thought of my novel in the more modern sense it did attain a greater fluidity. I never noticed it before, because I read so many classics, thus I'm used to reading what lots of people find difficult. I'm not saying you are necessarily the same, but the one thing I did to counter that was ask my friends and family what they thought things were I thought were simple and common knowledge, but, because I'd been so immersed in the technical language I tended to forget they were quiet complex. The opposite was true also, so that can help you too.

In general though, I'm with you on the style. I find that the common style of writing sword and sandal novels a bit 'fictiony', as though it reads like fiction and will therefore be a fiction. I take it, like me, that's not what you're going for? Perhaps this is a new dimension on the historical-fiction genre, like those docu-dramas on TV nowadays- a sort of hybrid between fact and fiction.
You may be successful, as Colleen McCullough was, but it's always worth keeping in mind she was already an established writer when she did her 'Masters' series and attempting to get the greatest market is what a publisher will want.

Of course you're aware of all this already, I'm sure and I truly hope this sort of book is the future in the genre.

I must say, before I go, that I very much like the fact that you don't use the dialogue to set the scene and carry the plot. I know, for some people it breaks the fluidity, but I feel the over all sense of realism is maintained much better when you use dialogue to convey the characters and not use them as sign-posts to where you are taking the plot. This does result in explanations, which, again, is something some dislike- but it's a complicated subject, so I say persevere.

It'd be good to hear from you in the future.

Best of luck,

D.
P.S. So shelved!

Duane,

This is quite an acheivment. I can only imagine the amount of research this took. You seem to have nailed the setting of the times. I love that this story teaches as well as entertains. I feel like I've had a bit of a history lesson :)

You have some truly incredible descriptions and I thoght you dialogue sounded believable for the time peroid.

Happy to give this a turn on my shelf.

Heidi
Turning Red

Hi Duane

I liked this - you have a strong voice here, and it makes a nice change to see everything from a Greek rather than Roman perspective (though opening with the Pythia did remind me somewhat of "I, Claudius" - the book, not the TV adaptation). I'm not sure that the leisurely pace really suits the online reading experience, but that's no fault of your writing.

Only a couple of small points.

"As a young woman already it seemed a cloud of doom..." - the mist is a young woman? I think you lost control of this sentence somewhere! I guess you mean "Even I was a young woman it seemed a cloud of doom..." or something similar. (There's also a missing 'a' before 'dying man'). Given that you start with two sentences of scene-setting, you need to be clear when you introduce your viewpoint character.

Given that you are using a lot of names in forms unfamiliar to the average Latin-influenced Westerner - Romaioi, Apollon - I would advise against using Greek words when there are good English equivalents. OK, so turannoi does not mean the same as English "tyrant", but are our poets, philosopheres and athletes so different?

That's it, really. Backed with pleasure!

Dear Duane,

I love historical fiction and much of my reading offline is in that category. I relish the background setting the story and the introduction of the characters and their ways of life, so different from the 21st century.

I am very impressed with your research and knowledge of the era and it's background of which you are writing. When you get to the people and some dialog, the story begins to shine. You have much talent as a writer, but I guess my talent as a reader doesn't match it.

I'm sorry to say that I got really bogged down with the names--the old way of writing them--who was related to whom, who was the king and why. I didn't make it to the end of the first chapter.

You deserve a more knowledgeable history buff than I. Sorry.

Hi Duane,
As a nascent classics devotee, this was right up my street - fantastic detail, very evocative, totally compelling. It deserves to do well!
Backed.
Conor F

Hi Conor!
well, I am honored and flattered by your remarks! Thank you very much!

Hi Duane
As promised, I have ,at las,t have read sections of 'Kings and Tyrants' Reading, left me in no odubt of your scholarship and your writing is smooth and powerful -well able to carry me on the journey you promise in your outline. Carry me, that is, until I hit the old fashioned versions of names you use such a lot. They continually jolted me out of the story, and I would, to be honest ,have returned the book to it' shelf without buying. That would have been a shame as it's beautifully written and almost literary in it's style. So, it certainly passed two of my three criteria and I will be Shelving it. ( I have to wait until 1st July, as I managed to mess up my Shelf for this month,-but Shelved it will be! )
Anthony
('Houses of Sand')

Hi Anthony,
thanks so much for your comments!
Yes, I know the names are an issue with some people. I'll need to consider this.
Cheers,
Duane

Hi Duane

As promised, I have ,at las,t have read sections of 'Kings and Tyrants' Reading, left me in no odubt of your scholarship and your writing is smooth and powerful -well able to carry me on the journey you promise in your outline. Carry me, that is, until I hit the old fashioned versions of names you use such a lot. They continually jolted me out of the story, and I would, to be honest ,have returned the book to it' shelf without buying. That would have been a shame as it's beautifully written and almost literary in it's style. So, it certainly passed two of my three criteria and I will be Shelving it. ( I have to wait until 1st July, as I managed to mess up my Shelf for this month,-but Shelved it will be! )

Anthony
('Houses of Sand')

Kings and Tyrants has been on my shelf ever since I first saw it. It is a true tour-De-force of historical fiction and in many ways it mirrors my own Saga.
For a Saga, it is ,and no mean read for someone who loves historical fiction. However, even I stumbled a lot because of the difficult names to swallow and the incredible detail you provide. One of the problems we share is that we are asking for reads and comments from people who are not used to such an Epic proportions, and they give up before they are gripped by the characters and story lines.
True it is so difficult to read long chapters on line with such a small font. However, anyone brought up with historical fiction or fantasy is in it for the whole ride, and they will be well rewarded.
I have only managed to read a few separate chapters picked at random so that I can be flavour the writing and style and see if it is maintained and by golly is it!
The computer screed does our work no favours, and I fear that I must await the publication of the noteworthy tome.
I am not a suitable person to advise on the english grammar etc the few Typo,s will soon be sorted out by an editor.
Here are my thoughts on the content for what they are worth.
I liked the idea of a narrator. However, I feel that there is a little two much telling of the story and not enough involvement with the characters , perhaps you could consider more use of the first person and use dialogue to set the scene.
I also found the Greek names off putting, and I believe that should you use the anglesite version it would not trip up your readers quite so much. Shorter sentences are also a good idea.
The actual story lines and their development is first class. Well done indeed .( Ray Jones. The Deep Magic.)

Hi Ray!
thank you so much for your encouragement AND suggestions. I do take them seriously. I have been considering especially anglicizing names and getting deeper into characters...
Cheers,
Duane